Entreq Coming for Testing/Measurements

[jkeny]

i suppose the point is:

1. What does Per Olaf suggest you measure or where do you look?
2. People have said/heard that this stuff helps level/match impedance across different connected pieces of equipment...so if one takes equipment impedance measurements without Entreq, and then when the full system is all hooked up to Entreq...does it change, even out?
3. People say it lowers noise floor...measure this? ie, noise floor of system without and with Entreq in
4. People say it lowers grunge generally...so the signal should be more 'accurate'...is system music, tone signals, etc more accurate with/without Entreq? And does it make a different to measure not just tone signals but a pattern of music going thru system? or even a piano note?
5. Anything else?

All from a layman, Amir...again, you have put your time where your mouth is and said measurements are important, and taken the time to actually do this...appreciated and respected. Will be curious to learn more.

Just a point of clarification - when "people say" it means their "perception is" i.e their auditory perception.
Making a direct one to one relationship between auditory perception reports & measurements is mistaken & care has to be taken in what to focus measurements on, IMO.
It's one of the reasons I asked Amir why he wouldn't listen first - it can direct the focus (or not) to trying to uncover a measurement which confirms what is heard.
For instance people reporting hearing a brightness in the system doesn't always mean that high frequencies are elevated - there are a number of other reasons

 

[Barry2013]

My own experience of Entreq over a period of three years has been that each addition/upgrade resulted in an immediate and perceptible improvement in the sound quality followed by further improvements as it settled in.
I have not the slightest doubt that LL21's recent post doesn't reflect actual experience.
Like JKeny my recommended starting point for Amir would be to hook it up and listen to it before attempting any measurements. Seems to me that that would be a better guide to what to try to measure.

 

[Barry2013]

PS to above post
The best starting point in my view would be to connect the Olympus Minimus to the preamp and then listen.

 

[rockitman]

Why not listen first?

I'm not sure how much we will learn here....especially if he doesn't have a refined system to listen to said device. Measuring micro voltages, resistance, capacitance with a multi meter and o-scope ? That will tell us a lot...

 

[GaryProtein]

. . . .my recommended starting point for Amir would be to hook it up and listen to it before attempting any measurements. . . .

Have someone else "hook it up" [or not] and "listen to it" without looking and see what kind of difference it makes.

Just a belated update that the Entreq is here! Thanks to the kindness of PO, I am in the possession of an Entreq Olympus Minimus. Here she is sitting on my test bench:

I must say the enclosure build quality is excellent. It is made out of Walnut (?) or similar wood. Finished in some kind of oil (matte). Nothing remotely like what we had seen in the picture posted in the Entreq thread. The unit is also quite hefty. It was excellently packed in a mini "crate.". . . .

I heard the box is filled with sand. ? ? ? ?

I hope we get a deconstruction or removal of a cover of the device to see what's inside in the review.

All the other types of components in reviews show what they look like inside.

This should NOT be an exception.

 

[amirm]

i suppose the point is:

1. What does Per Olaf suggest you measure or where do you look?

He hasn't. He has let me screw around on my own .

2. People have said/heard that this stuff helps level/match impedance across different connected pieces of equipment...so if one takes equipment impedance measurements without Entreq, and then when the full system is all hooked up to Entreq...does it change, even out?

One of the measurements I hope to do is to measure the impedance of the device itself. This lets us characterize in it, without looking inside.

3. People say it lowers noise floor...measure this? ie, noise floor of system without and with Entreq in

This is easy to measure and is on my top of the list of things to measure.

4. People say it lowers grunge generally...so the signal should be more 'accurate'...is system music, tone signals, etc more accurate with/without Entreq? And does it make a different to measure not just tone signals but a pattern of music going thru system? or even a piano note?

If I can get my capture system going before I have to return the device, we can do some of this analysis even though it is complex.

5. Anything else?

All from a layman, Amir...again, you have put your time where your mouth is and said measurements are important, and taken the time to actually do this...appreciated and respected. Will be curious to learn more.

Thanks for the suggestions Lloyd. I appreciate it. My goal with this device is to go from no objective data, to some objective data. How far that takes us is hard to predict until I see that data.

 

[amirm]

Have someone else "hook it up" [or not] and "listen to it" without looking and see what kind of difference it makes.





I heard the box is filled with sand. ? ? ? ?

I hope we get a deconstruction or removal of a cover of the device to see what's inside in the review.

All the other types of components in reviews show what they look like inside.

This should NOT be an exception.

I don't have permission to do that. If I open it, I buy it. And right now, I am not buying it .

 

[amirm]

I'm not sure how much we will learn here....especially if he doesn't have a refined system to listen to said device.

Have there been any reports of unrefined systems where this device did nothing? I have only seen positive reports from owners but admittedly have not had much exposure to those discussions. Have you tested the device in refined/unrefined systems to see the difference?

And what is a refined system anyway?

 

[amirm]

Why not listen first?

For one, I don't have the time. I unboxed it last night and am leaving for the airport in a few minutes. I have to make cables to connect it to any audio equipment and just don't have the time yet.

Also, this forum and the purpose of the loan was to measure. Anyone can listen and don't need me to do that for them . But yes, I will listen at some point.

 

[amirm]

Have someone else "hook it up" [or not] and "listen to it" without looking and see what kind of difference it makes.

The manual says the effect of connecting and disconnecting is not immediate so AB tests are not recommended. Users also speak of the same. I will do the quick AB anyway. I am not a conformist.

 

[amirm]

PS to above post
The best starting point in my view would be to connect the Olympus Minimus to the preamp and then listen.

When you say connect to pre-amp, what do you mean specifically. I have a single connection on the box. Do I connect it to the shield of say, unbalanced input connector? Or output connector? Can I connect it to any unused input or does it need to be the one with the signal on it? How about incoming AC ground?

 

[rockitman]

Have there been any reports of unrefined systems where this device did nothing? I have only seen positive reports from owners but admittedly have not had much exposure to those discussions. Have you tested the device in refined/unrefined systems to see the difference?

And what is a refined system anyway?

Probably not since people with un-refined low budget systems will not buy this device. I hope you are planning to try it in your system. Your bench tests wont shed much light I predict.

 

[Barry2013]

When you say connect to pre-amp, what do you mean specifically. I have a single connection on the box. Do I connect it to the shield of say, unbalanced input connector? Or output connector? Can I connect it to any unused input or does it need to be the one with the signal on it? How about incoming AC ground?

Thanks Amir
I mean connect the earth cable to an unused pre amp input and then the other spade end to the Olympus.
It's designed for signal grounding so the incoming AC ground is not what it is designed for.

 

[LL21]

Amirm,

Thanks for responding to my post...very good to know. As Barry2013 and JKeny were discussing, yes i have spent time using, disconnecting and reconnecting (due to shoot-outs, a temporary trial vs buying one and taking it home vs moving). In my experience, a connection does make a difference and i got about 25% on connection, 50% in about 20 minutes, 70% over 4-8 hours then 80% over 48 hours then 100% over around 2 weeks. Personally, having connected and disconnected and reconnected a number of times, i would say waiting is critical (at least 20 minutes) but certainly hearing 'nothing' would be a surprise.

The only other note is that DIS-connecting after a few hours is generally a greater revelation because that delta can be instant.

 

[GaryProtein]

I don't have permission to do that. If I open it, I buy it. And right now, I am not buying it .

WHY am I NOT surprised about that!

It doesn't add a whole lot of credence to the product.

Most companies love to show the beautiful internal architecture of their products.

The manual says the effect of connecting and disconnecting is not immediate so AB tests are not recommended. Users also speak of the same. I will do the quick AB anyway. I am not a conformist.

Why am I NOT surprised about that either?!?!

 

[mauidan]

Have someone else "hook it up" [or not] and "listen to it" without looking and see what kind of difference it makes.





I heard the box is filled with sand. ? ? ? ?

I hope we get a deconstruction or removal of a cover of the device to see what's inside in the review.

All the other types of components in reviews show what they look like inside.

This should NOT be an exception.

See post #1687:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11995-Entreq-Tellus-grounding/page169

 

[GaryProtein]

Thank you!

 

[microstrip]

(...) Also, this forum and the purpose of the loan was to measure. Anyone can listen and don't need me to do that for them . But yes, I will listen at some point.

Do you have equipment to measure its performance in the bandwidth between 200 kHz and 6 GHz?

 

[jkeny]

Do you have equipment to measure its performance in the bandwidth between 200 kHz and 6 GHz?

Or a measuring technique that will show a modulating noise floor when playing music?

 

[amirm]

Do you have equipment to measure its performance in the bandwidth between 200 kHz and 6 GHz?

I can measure up to 3 Ghz. What is the importance of those two numbers?