I have tried the Gold with the forsell on a few occasions now at its a great match indeed the combination has a great midrange with lots of authority considering the for sell does not major in the department. The gold seems to bring a sense of solidity to the party.
Etsuro Urushi Gold Cartridge - The New "Gold" Standard
- Thread starter Believe High Fidelity
- Start date
I have tried the Gold with the forsell on a few occasions now at its a great match indeed the combination has a great midrange with lots of authority considering the for sell does not major in the department. The gold seems to bring a sense of solidity to the party.
This cable is not finally decided.
When using a SUT, the cartridge will see the capacity of the cable between SUT and Phonopre multiplied by the factor of the SUT. Depending on the cable in use, higher ratio step ups, like 30x often sound compromised /distorted.
Jonathan Carr gave some background in this thread:
Currently I have different cables from Wireworld available, as you can buy them in the same specification, just with different materials for the wires. Currently I like the OCC7N Copper version. My cables are currently 1m or 1,5m long.
I have just ordered the same cables in 0,5m length to get a better capacity matching (and to hear, if my my set up is sensible for this change), maybe in 0,5m length the pure silver version will be the better fit. We will see.
I do not have the Allnic in use too long.
The Boulder 2008 was connected with the Phasemation T-2000 with a Phasemation CC-100R RCA => XLR cable,
designed with a dedicated low capacity for this purpose.
The AXIOM Tonearm in use has going through wiring from Cartridge to XLR, using Kondo silver wiring.
From there I like to try the Wireworld pure Silver cable as well.
A recommended start cable in my SUT trials is always the old SME standard tonearm cable, like supplied with SME 3012R.
This RCA => RCA cable does also work fairly good between Step up and PhonoPre.
If Carr is correct than the cartridge would see a capacitive loading by a 50pf cable on the secondary of a 26 dB SUT of 10,000pf ! If this is treated as parallel capacitance then it pretty much doesn’t matter what the phono cable is. Something here doesn’t make sense.This cable is not finally decided.
When using a SUT, the cartridge will see the capacity of the cable between SUT and Phonopre multiplied by the factor of the SUT. Depending on the cable in use, higher ratio step ups, like 30x often sound compromised /distorted.
Jonathan Carr gave some background in this thread:
Currently I have different cables from Wireworld available, as you can buy them in the same specification, just with different materials for the wires. Currently I like the OCC7N Copper version. My cables are currently 1m or 1,5m long.
I have just ordered the same cables in 0,5m length to get a better capacity matching (and to hear, if my my set up is sensible for this change), maybe in 0,5m length the pure silver version will be the better fit. We will see.
I do not have the Allnic in use too long.
The Boulder 2008 was connected with the Phasemation T-2000 with a Phasemation CC-100R RCA => XLR cable,
designed with a dedicated low capacity for this purpose.
The AXIOM Tonearm in use has going through wiring from Cartridge to XLR, using Kondo silver wiring.
From there I like to try the Wireworld pure Silver cable as well.
A recommended start cable in my SUT trials is always the old SME standard tonearm cable, like supplied with SME 3012R.
This RCA => RCA cable does also work fairly good between Step up and PhonoPre.
Hey Miniguy,
keeping the math simple, all of the capacitances at the secondary of the SUT are in parallel and simply add and are reflected to the source by the turns ratio squared. In your case with a 1:20 and 100pF at the secondary the primary of the SUT appears as 40,000pF. You then add the tonearm cable 100pF in parallel to that for 40,100pF. This clearly shows that when it comes to cable capacitance it is the cable from the SUT to the phono stage that should be kept as low capacitance as possible. The rub here is since this is a high impedance node, shielding is also a must for quiet operation. Unfortunately shielding adds capacitance so you move a little forward in noise and a little back in HF extension. Keeping the cable as short as possible (0.5m or less) helps on both counts.
If you have a low impedance cartridge like the Etsuro Gold, this capacitance will not be much of a concern. However is you start to look at something like a 30? Allaerts things start getting "dangerously" close to the top end of the audio spectrum and something like a 1:14 (20dB) sut may be a better choice. This is not to say that the low impedance cartridges are not immune to this and a perfect example is the Audio Note Japan (Kondo) IO-Ltd. This cart has a 1? impedance and its low output of 0.15mV begs for a high step up ratio. A 1:100 is entirely possible but any secondary capacitance is now multiplied by 10,000X. Now the assumed 100pF becomes 1µF which again puts us in a grey area of acceptability.
I put the term "dangerously" in quotes above since it is really a subjective topic and what is acceptable to some is considered incompetent by others.
dave
keeping the math simple, all of the capacitances at the secondary of the SUT are in parallel and simply add and are reflected to the source by the turns ratio squared. In your case with a 1:20 and 100pF at the secondary the primary of the SUT appears as 40,000pF. You then add the tonearm cable 100pF in parallel to that for 40,100pF. This clearly shows that when it comes to cable capacitance it is the cable from the SUT to the phono stage that should be kept as low capacitance as possible. The rub here is since this is a high impedance node, shielding is also a must for quiet operation. Unfortunately shielding adds capacitance so you move a little forward in noise and a little back in HF extension. Keeping the cable as short as possible (0.5m or less) helps on both counts.
If you have a low impedance cartridge like the Etsuro Gold, this capacitance will not be much of a concern. However is you start to look at something like a 30? Allaerts things start getting "dangerously" close to the top end of the audio spectrum and something like a 1:14 (20dB) sut may be a better choice. This is not to say that the low impedance cartridges are not immune to this and a perfect example is the Audio Note Japan (Kondo) IO-Ltd. This cart has a 1? impedance and its low output of 0.15mV begs for a high step up ratio. A 1:100 is entirely possible but any secondary capacitance is now multiplied by 10,000X. Now the assumed 100pF becomes 1µF which again puts us in a grey area of acceptability.
I put the term "dangerously" in quotes above since it is really a subjective topic and what is acceptable to some is considered incompetent by others.
dave
I am not a technical expert in this regard,
but the sonic difference of cables between SUT and PhonoPre is different, than using the same cable between standard line components. You still can hear copper and silver, but other parameters have a more or less prominent influence.
Means, I am in a learning curve
The last years I mainly used Fidelity Research XF2 SUTs, they have attached cables, so no chance to experiment.
There’s no question that the cable between SUT and phono stage can make a noticeable difference. But the various electrical parameters of the SUT can make it difficult to understand. A useful experiment would be to compare two significantly different lengths of the same cable.I am not a technical expert in this regard,
but the sonic difference of cables between SUT and PhonoPre is different, than using the same cable between standard line components. You still can hear copper and silver, but other parameters have a more or less prominent influence.
Means, I am in a learning curve
The last years I mainly used Fidelity Research XF2 SUTs, they have attached cables, so no chance to experiment.
in my situation, i had Dave Slagle supply the 2 sets of short (18" long) sets of interconnects between my CS Port phono and the 2 SUT's. so they are purpose made for that spot, and that particular SUT.
the tech of this is way beyond me, but i like what i hear.
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What’s the capacitance of those 18” cables if you were told and did you try much higher capacitance cable in the same spot?
Best way to go
I used with success the Phasemation RCA => XLR cable to connect the Phasemation T-2000 SUT with my Boulder Phono.
A Phasemation RCA => RCA Phonocable should be the next logical step, at least to compare.
Mike, this is good to know. I thought perhaps you were using another pair of LFD between SUT and CSPort.
Yes SE. Twisted pair with shield. Nothing boutique just 0.9999 mined Jupiter silver and cotton and air as the main dielectric. The pedigree of the silver seems to be more important than the actual purity percentage. The 0.9999 purity sourced from a mine sounds better than 0.99999 with an unknown provenance. Listening to a gold conductor in that position at the moment and I am liking it.
Thanks. What’s the conductor gauge and is the shield connected on one or both ends?
#28 if you terminate the shield on both ends it becomes a ground. The shield gets terminated to the low impedance (SUT) side of the IC.
dave
dave
If I run a twisted pair with shield connected only at the SUT secondary end, it picks up low level hashy random noise you can hear thru the speakers. If the shield is connected at both ends (so essentially becomes part of the return) or I use a coax, there is no noise. Maybe has something to do with the way the SUT grounds behave with the system grounds.
The number 1 rule I have found with phono is whatever gets you quietist is best. This is decidedly not a case where the same thing works the same in every circumstance so often it is best to do what works rather than what is "supposed to work".
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