Getting Good Sound From “Regular” Rooms

[Tangram]

I have a dedicated listening room in our basement. Sealed, no windows, treatments where I want them regardless of looks, low ambient noise - that sort of thing. But I’ve always envied people who have their systems in “regular” rooms who get good sound despite an abundance of windows, no 12’ ceilings and a lack of acoustic treatments. My ideal room is one of those “regular” rooms where I hang out even when the stereo isn’t on or playing quietly,, entertaining friends or reading.

My question then is “How do people pull off great sound in regular rooms, specifically without EQ?” I’d prefer that the discussion not venture into “they’re deluded - can’t be done” territory. Instead, it would be great for folks who have pulled it off to chime in and share their thoughts on how they’ve done it.

I’ve enjoyed my basement man cave but it’s time to see the light!

 

[dbeau]

I have a dedicated listening room in our basement. Sealed, no windows, treatments where I want them regardless of looks, low ambient noise - that sort of thing. But I’ve always envied people who have their systems in “regular” rooms who get good sound despite an abundance of windows, no 12’ ceilings and a lack of acoustic treatments. My ideal room is one of those “regular” rooms where I hang out even when the stereo isn’t on or playing quietly,, entertaining friends or reading.

My question then is “How do people pull off great sound in regular rooms, specifically without EQ?” I’d prefer that the discussion not venture into “they’re deluded - can’t be done” territory. Instead, it would be great for folks who have pulled it off to chime in and share their thoughts on how they’ve done it.

I’ve enjoyed my basement man cave but it’s time to see the light!

Good query, and I have no sound treatments in my "living" / listening room with IMO exceptional naturally musical reproduction.
It is mostly "the room" and yes it has a 12 foot ceiling and is 17'x35' and this might be the reason BUT it is no less Regular than your room with a 6 1/2 foot ceiling which I think not usual either. No knocking but what is a 'regular' listening room. I understand your search too and will be interested in the responses here.

 

[Bruce B]

I’m dealing with this now. Moved (downsized) a few years ago and the wife said I could use the loft as my mastering room and a spare bedroom as my transfer/editing room. The first cardinal rule I’m up against is symmetry. I can’t do any construction or anything too extreme. Room is approximately 23’ x 14’ x 8’. I bought some Tube Traps and Planks at the Pacific Audiofest. Just started experimenting with placement this weekend. Even a few pieces have created such a transformation.

 

[hopkins]

I don't have the answer, but I will be curious to see the replies (not having a dedicated listening space myself). I'll simply note that historically hi-fi preceded the use of acoustic treatment. People followed "good practices" using regular furniture. But at the time, speakers produced less bass...

 

[AudioHR]

Good query, and I have no sound treatments in my "living" / listening room with IMO exceptional naturally musical reproduction.
It is mostly "the room" and yes it has a 12 foot ceiling and is 17'x35' and this might be the reason BUT it is no less Regular than your room with a 6 1/2 foot ceiling which I think not usual either. No knocking but what is a 'regular' listening room. I understand your search too and will be interested in the responses here.

I am also interested in the responses.

dbeau off the cuff your room size sounds promising because of its volume. Tangram if your ceiling is only 6 1/2 that makes things interesting.

My room is dedicated but far from ideal. My dimensions are very good but I have a large picture window and an adjacent French door which make it difficult to support the bass. The room actually sounds very good but I recognize its deficiencies.

The room is vitally important! There is no sense in investing in what's best unless your room's acoustics will support it.

 

[Kingrex]

I have seen it work but only when WAF is thrown out. Image is of a system in a living room that sounds very good. Lots of tube traps. Curtains are audio grade. Stuff down side walls and behind. Freq curves are very good with no dsp.

I have also seen very fashionable systems that sound very good with an integrated and small speaker. They don't sound great or amazing. But there is no reason they arn't absolutely enjoyable to sit and read in front of and occasionally stop and listen to a favorite song.

 

[DonH50]

Luck of the draw?

Arrangement of the listening position helps a lot. Most untreated rooms are fairly live so do not sound all that bad, despite the reflections and nulls, especially when there's nothing to compare to. As for treatments, several companies make absorbers with printed covers, using their pictures or ones you submit, so you can add treatment that doesn't look like treatment. I have also seen folk use smaller (e.g. 1-2 sq ft) circles, squares, and/or diamonds arranged in small groups of patterns on walls and ceiling to look like artwork.

 

[hopkins]

Luck of the draw?

Arrangement of the listening position helps a lot. Most untreated rooms are fairly live so do not sound all that bad, despite the reflections and nulls, especially when there's nothing to compare to. As for treatments, several companies make absorbers with printed covers, using their pictures or ones you submit, so you can add treatment that doesn't look like treatment. I have also seen folk use smaller (e.g. 1-2 sq ft) circles, squares, and/or diamonds arranged in small groups of patterns on walls and ceiling to look like artwork.

Agreed with all this, but one of the major issues with listening in a living room remains the limitations as to seating position and speaker placement.

I keep my speakers close to the wall, which is fine for casual listening, but move them into the room, closer to my couch (roughly 2 meters away), for late night listening (with the added bonus that I can turn down the volume). I found an optimal placement which greatly reduces room modes.

I just ordered small platforms with lockable wheels, to make it easier to move my speakers. The added height also works in my case.

Obviously, if you have huge speakers, that's not going to be an option.

 

[Tangram]

Good query, and I have no sound treatments in my "living" / listening room with IMO exceptional naturally musical reproduction.
It is mostly "the room" and yes it has a 12 foot ceiling and is 17'x35' and this might be the reason BUT it is no less Regular than your room with a 6 1/2 foot ceiling which I think not usual either. No knocking but what is a 'regular' listening room. I understand your search too and will be interested in the responses here.

I wonder if, when it comes to “regular” rooms, bigger is better? As for my low basement ceiling, that’s another reason it would be nice to move above ground. It’s a century home - nobody used basements for anything other than storing root vegetables!

 

[ssfas]

I have a semi-dedicated room. It's off the main living area on the ground floor. It used to be our dining room. Most of the time it's for audio, but my wife likes to sit in the room reading sometimes and when friends are round it is very comfortable.

- The room is 14 wide x 18 long x 9 high. All walls are brick.
- There is a bay behind the speakers
- The back wall behind the listening position can slide away. The area behind is 40 feet deep.
- There is a single listening chair, but a matching chair opposite between the speakers.
- There is also a chaise longue on one side wall, with bookcases
- All the furnishings are velvet
- the record cabinet is on the other side
- The windows have -60dB acoustic glass
- The walls are lined with -60dB Acoustiwall triple layer board
- The ceiling had 2 layers of sound bloc board with no holes in it, stopping sound going through the ceiling.
- The lighting (also a secondary sound system) is in a dropped ceiling. This breaks up reflections as well as reducing noise transmission further.
- The hifi is kept to a limited space in a corner on a bespoke steel and slate stand.
- The speakers are room-appropriate.
- The bookcases, hifi shelves and turntable paint are all made from the same veneer. All are made bespoke and flush (with shadow gaps), same for the skirting.
- Dedicated power supply
- Cables are almost completely hidden
- Otherwise, room tastefully decorated, silver silk wallpaper, privacy blinds and heavy silk Roman blinds.

The only thing we didn't do it dig up and replace the suspended floor, which we did to the rest of the house. It is old Oak, that we bought from in France about 25 years ago, got milled to 1 inch thickness and drove it home. My wife wanted to keep it.

When my dealer came round to set up the speakers, he was delighted because it was so easy to get sounding good, took him less than an hour.

 

[Tangram]

I have a semi-dedicated room. It's off the main living area on the ground floor. It used to be our dining room. Most of the time it's for audio, but my wife likes to sit in the room reading sometimes and when friends are round it is very comfortable.

- The room is 14 wide x 18 long x 9 high. All walls are brick.
- There is a bay behind the speakers
- The back wall behind the listening position can slide away. The area behind is 40 feet deep.
- There is a single listening chair, but a matching chair opposite between the speakers.
- There is also a chaise longue on one side wall, with bookcases
- All the furnishings are velvet
- the record cabinet is on the other side
- The windows have -60dB acoustic glass
- The walls are lined with -60dB Acoustiwall triple layer board
- The ceiling had 2 layers of sound bloc board with no holes in it, stopping sound going through the ceiling.
- The lighting (also a secondary sound system) is in a dropped ceiling. This breaks up reflections as well as reducing noise transmission further.
- The hifi is kept to a limited space in a corner on a bespoke steel and slate stand.
- The speakers are room-appropriate.
- The bookcases, hifi shelves and turntable paint are all made from the same veneer. All are made bespoke and flush (with shadow gaps), same for the skirting.
- Dedicated power supply
- Cables are almost completely hidden
- Otherwise, room tastefully decorated, silver silk wallpaper, privacy blinds and heavy silk Roman blinds.

The only thing we didn't do it dig up and replace the suspended floor, which we did to the rest of the house. It is old Oak, that we bought from in France about 25 years ago, got milled to 1 inch thickness and drove it home. My wife wanted to keep it.

When my dealer came round to set up the speakers, he was delighted because it was so easy to get sounding good, took him less than an hour.

Fantastic information! Exactly what I’m in need of. I assume with velvet furniture you don’t have cats?

 

[ssfas]

Fantastic information! Exactly what I’m in need of. I assume with velvet furniture you don’t have cats?

No cats.
Before

After

The photography plays tricks. The speakers are 7 feet apart in the sitting position 9 feet away, the preferred Wilson ratio.

This is the view the other way.

 

[hopkins]

No cats.
Before

View attachment 136493After
View attachment 136494
The photography plays tricks. The speakers are 7 feet apart in the sitting position 9 feet away, the preferred Wilson ratio.

This is the view the other way.
View attachment 136495

Very nice looking room, that does not look like a recording studio. Well done!

 

[AudioHR]

No cats.
Before

View attachment 136493After
View attachment 136494
The photography plays tricks. The speakers are 7 feet apart in the sitting position 9 feet away, the preferred Wilson ratio.

This is the view the other way.
View attachment 136495

Thanks for the pictures. I can see this being a very nice sitting room for all. Love your record collection!

 

[DonH50]

Agreed with all this, but one of the major issues with listening in a living room remains the limitations as to seating position and speaker placement.

Yah, I glossed over that, because listening position is pretty fixed in many (probably most) general-purpose rooms. Now and then a major rearrangement might be possible and significantly benefit the sound.

I keep my speakers close to the wall, which is fine for casual listening, but move them into the room, closer to my couch (roughly 2 meters away), for late night listening (with the added bonus that I can turn down the volume). I found an optimal placement which greatly reduces room modes.

I just ordered small platforms with lockable wheels, to make it easier to move my speakers. The added height also works in my case.

Obviously, if you have huge speakers, that's not going to be an option.

View attachment 136488

Excellent! Many years ago I built (and still have) wheeled platforms for my Magnepans so I could wheel them out into the room when listening. I am lucky enough to have a dedicated room now, but it is not terribly large, so a dedicated room is not always a panacea.

 

[hopkins]

Yah, I glossed over that, because listening position is pretty fixed in many (probably most) general-purpose rooms. Now and then a major rearrangement might be possible and significantly benefit the sound.


Excellent! Many years ago I built (and still have) wheeled platforms for my Magnepans so I could wheel them out into the room when listening. I am lucky enough to have a dedicated room now, but it is not terribly large, so a dedicated room is not always a panacea.

By the time I'm old enough that my hearing deteriorates I'll have moved out of the city and have the space to setup a proper listening area Until then...

 

[ssfas]

Agreed with all this, but one of the major issues with listening in a living room remains the limitations as to seating position and speaker placement.

I had Quad electrostatics on wheeled stands. An advantage of ESL is that they don't suffer from vibrations.

Our two single chairs are easy to move. Sometimes when we have people around I move them in front of the speakers, so 3 or 4 people can sit comfortably and have a drink and a chat.

If you don't fill up the room with lots of stuff, there should be room to easily move chairs between audio and non-audio use. Even in our small room this is quite easy.

 

[Kingrex]

No cats.
Before

View attachment 136493After
View attachment 136494
The photography plays tricks. The speakers are 7 feet apart in the sitting position 9 feet away, the preferred Wilson ratio.

This is the view the other way.
View attachment 136495

Well done. I like the negative airflow during construction. The doors to the room are tasteful. Its nice audio glass looks no different than normal glass.
Did you add absorption into the cloud?

 

[ssfas]

Very nice looking room, that does not look like a recording studio. Well done!

If you don't want it to look like a recording studio, you must limit the space used for the hifi. There are more than enough good integrated units to make that possible. Personally I have more boxes that I would like, but there are limited to one corner stack. Personally I don't think this needs to be a compromise.

I have all black units with minimal dials or lights and a steel/slate stand. Makes it as inconspicuous as possible.

Far more important it to get a pair of speakers that are sympathetic to the room. The larger the room, the easier this becomes. As my wife did not allow wooden boxes, my choices were limited.

The fact that there are so many white speakers like yours these days is a good thing. They are easier to blend in for many people.

 

[ssfas]

Well done. I like the negative airflow during construction. The doors to the room are tasteful. Its nice audio glass looks no different than normal glass.
Did you add absorption into the cloud?

The builders would have choked to death if we'd not put in temporary ventilation (removing a window and adding a fan). There was a plaster and lathe ceiling they had to pull down and they had to hack off all the plaster. At the worst they could hardly see anything. They were close to needing breathing apparatus.

The bifold doors are solid cherry and hang off a steel beam in the ceiling. They are extremely heavy and don't rattle like normal doors. Acoustic glass is very heavy. They were made 20 years ago (by the same cabinetmaker) and relocated from somewhere else. They only needed minor adjustment in this new location.

It's a problem in older brick houses fixing walls. Sometimes they aren't very straight either. Wooden frame walls are less of a mess and easier to deal with. There is lots of advice online about how to construct them without needing acoustic panels.

The cloud? Do you mean the thing on the ceiling? No, it's just a wooden frame with souldbloc and plastered. It has a flush-mounted sound and light system, each light is a 75w full 24/192 streaming system that produces extraordinarily good sound. It is Roon Ready as well as having Amazon HD and multiple other streaming options. The lighting is infinitely dimmable and had a wide temperature range from bright white to a very cool yellow. It's all Alexa enabled. The Alexa microphones are built in the light bezel.

The secondary sound system is much better for spatial audio and casual listening. You can play music and have a conversation. We have it throughout the house. The ground floor of the house is 4 Roon zones, so when we have people round I usually group them in Roon for ambient music. It's a good way of integrating the music room with the rest of the house.

Having Amazon HD onboard allows you to choose music with Alexa voice control, I just prefer Roon.

Getting the lighting to suit both a room for normal use and as a music listening room is quite easy these days. I also use Shelly Alexa-enabled relays around the house.