Good mid-price audiophile switches

[kennyb123]

It's US$800 with a built-in LPS AND an ocxo clock module.
IMHO it's a steal.

That’s great to know. CK do you think you will be getting the opportunity to hear the new switch from Innuos? Or have there been any reports yet from those familiar with this EdisCreation switch? Given the price difference it shouldn’t be close but you never know.

 

[thyname]

That’s great to know. CK do you think you will be getting the opportunity to hear the new switch from Innuos? Or have there been any reports yet from those familiar with this EdisCreation switch? Given the price difference it shouldn’t be close but you never know.

Sorry, I don’t mean to hijack your question to CK, but I wanted to add that I was very curious to try the Innuos PhoenixNET, since it was rumored months ago. I like Innuos a lot as a company based on their other products. I think I mentioned it earlier somewhere, I was disappointed they priced it that high at $3,500. I am sure it’s fantastic, but I cannot justify that price to myself. So that was it for me on PhoenixNET. I was practically priced out

 

[Stereophonic]

Just a couple of observations on sound I can easily discern: better tonal quality. Instruments sound more accurate, more natural. Some people call this timbre. In other words, sound is more natural to my ears, or to what I perceive to be “natural”. Better dynamics, as in improved difference between quiet and loud passages. The sound is now more clearly defined, sharper outlined phantom images, which I think it gives me an enhanced ability to hear the brief moments of silence between the passages. Overall, quieter, more naturally pleasing “cozy”, “fuller” sound, having lost nothing in details, or “speed” and impact.

Thank you very much for your report...
It is always difficult to explain sound. Anyway your description of accurate is meaning thinner and clinical sound?
I’ve listened a lot of great timbrical cables that remains in fatigue after some minutes of listening, specially in difficult passages like big symphonies....

 

[thyname]

....your description of accurate is meaning thinner and clinical sound?

Sorry if that sounded that way. Definitely NOT thin or clinical. Accurate as in “natural”. Closer to live performance. For example, acoustic guitar sound closer to the acoustic guitar sound someone playing in the same room with me

 

[Stereophonic]

Sorry, I don’t mean to hijack your question to CK, but I wanted to add that I was very curious to try the Innuos PhoenixNET, since it was rumored months ago. I like Innuos a lot as a company based on their other products. I think I mentioned it earlier somewhere, I was disappointed they priced it that high at $3,500. I am sure it’s fantastic, but I cannot justify that price to myself. So that was it for me on PhoenixNET. I was practically priced out

IMHO switches aren’t still well developed. They have a lot of improvements to do. It is a sort of try and error with different clocks and other mods....
LPS and cables has still more impact than switches itself and every opinion is very system dependent. It always is, but talking about switches, much more....
There are too many variables, net signal by coaxial or optical, different companies routers, different LPS for router, different ethernet cables, etc....
Edison switch has less variables with its internal LPS, no optical connection and it has a bonus with its new grounded/float input selector that is very interesting.
Edison has a lot of experience modding other switches so it is very easy to concluded he has packed all his experience with switches, clocks and LPS with a price that i see as acceptable to a component that will be improved, from audiophile perspective, very soon as research continues .. Every switch model of any brand will be bettered soon, so i won’t spend to much on what ever switch....

 

[kennyb123]

Sorry, I don’t mean to hijack your question to CK, but I wanted to add that I was very curious to try the Innuos PhoenixNET, since it was rumored months ago. I like Innuos a lot as a company based on their other products. I think I mentioned it earlier somewhere, I was disappointed they priced it that high at $3,500. I am sure it’s fantastic, but I cannot justify that price to myself. So that was it for me on PhoenixNET. I was practically priced out

No, not hijacking at all. I agree with you on the price of the PhoenixNET. I’m sure it’s great - but I wonder how it could possibly justify that price. CK’s description of your new switch “built-in LPS AND an ocxo clock module” applies to the Phoenix too so it seems like the two come close to being apples to apples.

Sean Jacobs’ designed power supplies are no doubt excellent and likely a big factor in the pricing of the Phoenix.

 

[Stereophonic]

Sorry if that sounded that way. Definitely NOT thin or clinical. Accurate as in “natural”. Closer to live performance. For example, acoustic guitar sound closer to the acoustic guitar sound someone playing in the same room with me

Could you share with us your full EtherRegen vs Edison strengths vs weaknesses?
Which Ethernet cables are you using?
We have to consider Edison switch still hasn’t fully burned in, so i think sound won’t be stabilized and will be changing still during some days...

 

[thyname]

As a summary: EtherRegen is really good. I had it since launch, I believe November 2019. First batch. It was the switch that made me a believer in such things. The Edison Switch does the same things that EtherRegen does, just better. Hope that makes sense.

I have owned many highly priced Ethernet cables. For some reason, to my ears, the Ethernet cables do not scale much with price. Again to my ears, and my ears only, as long as the Ethernet cables is good quality (I can easily tell vs. a hardware store cable), works well. So price / performance is an easier solution for me. These are what I currently use: http://ghentaudio.com/pc/et11.html

 

[Stereophonic]

Question - how had you been powering your ER? Your Edison switch includes an internal LPS so the apples to apples comparison would have the ER powered by an LPS as well.

$800 with a built-in LPS is a heck of a good price. I’ve added a Super3 to my ER so it’s more like I have a $1300 switch including the DC cable.

External LPS are a big issue to me...
Each brand sounds different and needs different power cords to make each one sound at its higher level.
A serious switch has to have his own LPS inside as my preamp, Dac, Server,....has.
Do you imagine all your components would need external power supply? It is crazy...

 

[kennyb123]

External LPS are a big issue to me...
Each brand sounds different and needs different power cords to make each one sound at its higher level.
A serious switch has to have his own LPS inside as my preamp, Dac, Server,....has.
Do you imagine all your components would need external power supply? It is crazy...

I can see both sides. The inclusion of a good LPS can add a lot to the asking price. Nice to be able to scale the power supply to your budget. The ER is super-impressive with the stock supply such that most folks probably feel it’s good enough as is. My ER was significantly improved with the Super3. Like @thyname the ER was the first device of this kind that I owned so it gave me an idea of what’s possible. Had it been selling for $800 instead but with a built in LPS, I’m thinking fewer folks would have wanted to dip their toe into this water. I couldn’t agree more though about the madness with all these additional boxes.

 

[Stereophonic]

I can see both sides. The inclusion of a good LPS can add a lot to the asking price. Nice to be able to scale the power supply to your budget. The ER is super-impressive with the stock supply such that most folks probably feel it’s good enough as is. My ER was significantly improved with the Super3. Like @thyname the ER was the first device of this kind that I owned so it gave me an idea of what’s possible. Had it been selling for $800 instead but with a built in LPS, I’m thinking fewer folks would have wanted to dip their toe into this water. I couldn’t agree more though about the madness with all these additional boxes.

Uptone is the only one brand i know that has a different design for a Switch. ER is a stunning switch with proprietary design like moat... No other switch use this kind of technology, rest are switches modes.
I test one ER with JCat Optimo Duo LPS and the improvement was clear. But, was JCat best LPS for the ER?
As you can see, there are so many LPS in the market that it is imposible to test which one would work better with ER in my system.




There are a lot more LPS and to make it more difficult, each brand has different models...
From audiophile perspective, we all want to have best components with each customer budget
I liked ER but i want a LPS specially designed for it. Better if it comes in one box with ER inside.
CAS audio has grown until the level that switch is as important as others components and has to be designed like Dacs and Servers.
Everybody that have played with switches will understand me.
I’m not talking about money. I’m talking about to avoid so many variables.
@Superdad

 

[thyname]

ER is a stunning switch with proprietary design like moat...

Spot on! And if I can add, the pioneer in the switches custom made for audio. Being the first out there, it gave other manufacturers the opportunity to get one, study the design, and so to speak, reverse-engineering to come up with their Own switches. And of course, when they have a good starting point, a concept design, things can be improved upon, added design features, different/ better parts (I.e. better clock, better power supply, better wiring, etc.), at different (read: higher, sometimes much higher) price points. Bottom line: EtherRegen was the first, it made it made it much easier for competitors to launch their own switches, as the proof of concept was already out there already for them, to study, “copy”, and improve upon. Not saying they stole the Uptone and John Swenson designs, but you get my point I hope. It works pretty much the same way with any industry, and tech

 

[timztunz]

Would anyone here be so kind as to explain, in fairly simple terms, why one of these switches have a bearing on sound quality? First let me say that I do believe they do. I have an Aurender N20. From my Xfinity router I have CAT8 in a short run to a 16 port Netgear switch. From that switch a fairly long run of CAT8 to the music room. I first went directly into the N20. When I added the EtherREGEN and upgraded power supply I got an improvement. When I upgraded to a Sablon Ethernet cable, an improvement. Based on the comments of someone here I upgraded the power supply to a Farad Super3, further improvement. But if I understand correctly the Aurender buffers the Internet stream and plays from the HD. If the stream from the Internet is being buffered how does the switch affect the audio signal? Sorry if this is a moronic question.

 

[thyname]

If the stream from the Internet is being buffered how does the switch affect the audio signal? Sorry if this is a moronic question.

No problem. But I do have to ask: if the switch did make an improvement to your listening experience, does it really matter why? Experience trumps theory, and you do have the experience.

Now, to answer your question, the Ethernet connection in the first place is a physical connection via a copper wire. Electrical noise can, and will travel via copper from the router or switch to your audio system, and the buffer. Noise generated from all your other stuff connected to your router, TV, streaming devices, and a gazillion of other stuff you connect to your router. Including their noisy power supplies.

And there is the clocking stuff I am too lazy and not technical to explain it to. Plenty of materials online.

Bottom line: If it works for you, so be it. Why? Who cares. You already spent the money, and are enjoying the results. Sorry this sounds crude

 

[timztunz]

No problem. But I do have to ask: if the switch did make an improvement to your listening experience, does it really matter why? Experience trumps theory, and you do have the experience.

Now, to answer your question, the Ethernet connection in the first place is a physical connection via a copper wire. Electrical noise can, and will travel via copper from the router or switch to your audio system, and the buffer. Noise generated from all your other stuff connected to your router, TV, streaming devices, and a gazillion of other stuff you connect to your router. Including their noisy power supplies.

And there is the clocking stuff I am too lazy and not technical to explain it to. Plenty of materials online.

Bottom line: If it works for you, so be it. Why? Who cares. You already spent the money, and are enjoying the results. Sorry this sounds crude

It doesn’t matter in the least, I’m just curious.

 

[thyname]

It doesn’t matter in the least, I’m just curious.

Ethernet connection in the first place is a physical connection via a copper wire. Electrical noise can, and will travel via copper from the router or switch to your audio system, and the buffer. Noise generated from all your other stuff connected to your router, TV, streaming devices, and a gazillion of other stuff you connect to your router. Including their noisy power supplies.

And there is the clocking stuff I am too lazy and not technical to explain it to. Plenty of materials online.

Bottom line: If it works for you, so be it. Why? Who cares. You already spent the money, and are enjoying the results. Sorry this sounds crude

 

[kennyb123]

Would anyone here be so kind as to explain, in fairly simple terms, why one of these switches have a bearing on sound quality?

Some listeners a while back discovered that re-clocking with a really good clock can undo some of the harm that cheap clocks had done further upstream. Successive re-clocking can help further providing the best clock is used closest to the streamer as a lesser clock can reverse some of the gains.

I honestly don’t know it this is accurate but it would maybe explain some of this madness. I think there’s more to it though as the better switches take care to do less harm as far as passing noise on to our gear.

 

[timztunz]

These comments have been helpful. Thank you.

 

[RikkiPoo]

Successive re-clocking can help further providing the best clock is used closest to the streamer as a lesser clock can reverse some of the gains.

I have 3 switches I had the EE8 closest to my streamer as the system sounded best with it there. After adding a Mutec REF10 to clock an ER and SOtM I found moving the EE8 furthest from my steamer best.

The clocking unmasked so much detail, added blackness and really cranked up the PRAT. It also revealed to me some nasties my SFP's were adding that I was unaware of.

 

[thyname]

Quick update: continue to be impressed with EdisCreation Silent OCXO switch. I came back from work tonight, after leaving the switch on full time, and I can say my system never sounded so good. So I put my money where my mouth is, and ordered a second one, this time the “extreme“ version.

When it arrives in a few weeks, I will put the Extreme where my audio is, and will “relegate” my Standard switch to replace the main switch that feeds my HT stuff and the new Extreme switch