Mike, re Jazdoc's passive v active comparison on the Herzan - was this an a-b on the shelf in the same session, or Jazdoc recalling passive in the past v active only at this session? From what I gather, the shelf can be switched simply btwn passive and active mode and back again.
Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.
- Thread starter rockitman
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when you are on the bleeding edge of audio fidelity, what may seem small to you is not the case (speaking) for me. As always, everyone's mileage may vary. In my system, the improvement, at least with the turntable was significant and I am sure I will experience tangible positives under the amps that makes the cost of admission worth it to me.
I have not consciously sat back to consider which 'isolation sandwich' (one for each component) has actually made the most difference in my system. What I can say is that I was truly surprised when I stuck an Auralex isolation platform under my Gryphon. It was sorta by 'accident'. When Auralex made a larger isolation platform, i ended up buying it because the one i had was actually too short, and the feet of the Velodyne were half on/half off...
...when I got the bigger one, I figured since I had the smaller one...to use it somewhere in the system. The amp was the only item not isolated from the floor. Wow...I was very surprised and actually doubted what I was hearing for a day or two, but it was so consistent i realized that the floor really did transfer into even fairly inert and heavy (and solidly built) equipment like the 176lb Gryphon.
I had read so many people write this before me...I assumed it must have had some truth to it...but did not fully appreciate it until I heard it for myself in my own system. I have now added the 'top of the isolation sandwich' to the Gryphon (Artesania damping plate with 20kg of brass wt on top to add mass)...and it is quite a nice improvement.
You gotta love the Sharon Stone analogies/euphemisms. Personally, I suspect the amount of sweating I'll be doing running two OTT 70w/ch SET monoblocks in my room will be akin to the effect she had on me whencrossing her legs in the police interrogation scene in Basic Instinct 
! If i can get more of that for $12k with a Herzan, it'll be a BARGAIN !
! If i can get more of that for $12k with a Herzan, it'll be a BARGAIN !Christian-I have no idea whether the difference using the Herzan table is big or small as I have never heard it. Jazzdoc spent 3 hours at Mike's house listening to his system and his comment was the Herzan made a small improvement that was musically significant in Mike's system.
By the way, I just received a new Music Direct catalog yesterday in the mail and I see that PS Audio has a dual device which provides power conditioning and vibration control and supports up to 100 lbs. It's called the PerfectWave PowerBase and it retails for $995. Although I'm sure it's not in the same league as the Herzan, it may have some promise.
http://www.psaudio.com/shop/perfectwave-powerbase/
http://www.psaudio.com/shop/perfectwave-powerbase/
How much time has he spent really listening to his system with the current config of amps and speakers ? Audio memories are relatively brief. If mike said it was big... I believe him as I experienced the same big change. The best ears are the one's who have heard the system most...the owners.
this is not about choosing sides.
jazdoc is not wrong about his perspectives.
but our systems are quite different, our music focus is quite different. our sonic compasses are quite different. when I go to his system I don't always appreciate the subtlety and significance of his system changes and the same with jazdoc in my system.
so when he comes to my system with his sensibilities there is a disconnect to some extent. he hears what is important to him and I hear what I hear.
and he lives with his system every day and knows the slightest small change, as I do mine.
when he comes to my system, hears changes, he has a steep learning curve to process what I've processed hours a day. how can he 'get' anywhere close to what I 'get' about the differences?
mostly our differences about what the Herzan is doing are in degree, not in the specific things that are different. it's really the only way it can be.
he is correct about how he sees things based on his perceptions, sonic compass and familiarity.
jazdoc is not wrong about his perspectives.
but our systems are quite different, our music focus is quite different. our sonic compasses are quite different. when I go to his system I don't always appreciate the subtlety and significance of his system changes and the same with jazdoc in my system.
so when he comes to my system with his sensibilities there is a disconnect to some extent. he hears what is important to him and I hear what I hear.
and he lives with his system every day and knows the slightest small change, as I do mine.
when he comes to my system, hears changes, he has a steep learning curve to process what I've processed hours a day. how can he 'get' anywhere close to what I 'get' about the differences?
mostly our differences about what the Herzan is doing are in degree, not in the specific things that are different. it's really the only way it can be.
he is correct about how he sees things based on his perceptions, sonic compass and familiarity.
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I think you are referring a very important aspect - the learning phase. When I make a change in my system sometimes it seems very small at the first listening sessions, only after some time I start noticing that some recordings show different aspects or even that some features I was used to are no more there.
BTW, I can easily accept that the DartZeeel preamplifier reacts positively to the TS140 isolation - the NHB18NS uses a many optocouplers directly in the path and in the volume control and these devices could easily be sensitive to vibrations.
...And that is only one of the reasons why every opinion of everyone should be respected in its true light, merit. ...In reference to Mike's last post.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Mike
what did you hear differently that jazdoc didn't? Shouldn't magnitudes of difference be heard by everyone? Just my thought of course
what did you hear differently that jazdoc didn't? Shouldn't magnitudes of difference be heard by everyone? Just my thought of course
Not too surprising. Herzan has a video on their site illustrating this (look for the jackhammer video). The actuators are the same but with the active mode engaged they tend to correct faster.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Mike this is what you posted in the first evening of listening so it must have been very dramatic to you....
if i'm reading your question correctly, i don't think we had any differences in our perceptions, other than jazdoc felt that the Herzan affect on the dart pre affected digital more than vinyl, I saw it the other way (and I may not have interpreted his post correctly). he described things he heard on various cuts which I agreed with. then it's a matter of how one interprets the degree of improvement he described.
I've already addressed my perspective on our relative perceptions of differing magnitude of improvement from the Herzan.
it was very dramatic for me. my use of the word 'astonishing' referred to the way the Herzan mostly eliminated speaker feedback in the bass and how that made a big difference for me in my system.
initially I played lots music with big bass and I was and am still astonished by what the Herzan does with high octane music on vinyl, which my system and some others (like Christian's) here can do too.
earlier in the thread I talked about that here;
and here;
and here I added a warning about the how the Herzan might do in other systems until more of them are out there.
it's interesting that today with jazdoc we played almost zero of what I would refer to as high octane music, and that is most certainly not a big focus for jazdoc (or my get-togethers with him) and his system is not really set up to optimize or focus on that.
so this most significant aspect of what the Herzan does was not really a big part of the picture today.
Christian, if you intend to buy two TS 150's for those monster Pass XS 150 amps, you may be in for a real shocker. As you know, I have a pre-loaded Vibraplane under each of my Pass XA160.5s. The improvement was about 2/3 of what I hear with a Vibraplane under my turntable. I would have a really hard time going back. Do you plan to also use the Stillpoints? I suppose you could try both ways. Please report your findings. Wow.
Mike, I have the impression that you are listening much more to vinyl these days with the addition of the Herzan. A while back, I think around the time you upgraded from the Talea to the Telos, you mentioned that your vinyl was now sounding much more like your R2R tapes and actually sounded close to "master tape" quality. Perhaps it was the length of the arm and other refinements that made it sound more "continuous" or tape-like. I don't remember the exact quote, but I was certainly impressed by your sense of elation. At the time you referred to your tapes as your personal reference.
Now, with many more upgrades to your analog front end and most recently the two Herzan isolation tables, do you feel that you have you surpassed the sound of your R2R? Have you gone back to listen to your tapes recently and have you considered a Herzan for your R2R? I know that Albert Porter has a Vibraplane under both his turntable and R2R and he reports similarly significant improvements.
Which would you now consider your reference, tape or LP?
Now, with many more upgrades to your analog front end and most recently the two Herzan isolation tables, do you feel that you have you surpassed the sound of your R2R? Have you gone back to listen to your tapes recently and have you considered a Herzan for your R2R? I know that Albert Porter has a Vibraplane under both his turntable and R2R and he reports similarly significant improvements.
Which would you now consider your reference, tape or LP?
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That is an interesting query Peter. Speaking for myself, I think the lines between tape and vinyl are becoming more blurred as a result of active isolation for my system. That said, tape still the edge, most of the time when we talk safety master playback on a well sorted 15 ips deck.
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