I guess we'll just have to disagree, Myles. We couldn't hear things any more differently.
Tim
How much is too much?
- Thread starter DaveyF
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I guess we'll just have to disagree, Myles. We couldn't hear things any more differently.
Tim
Both Tim and I would say you have to have a very clean system, and the latter is not a trivial thing to achieve in typical audiophiles' setups. The loss of information is a component problem, a fault, something is wrong with the playback. Agreed, digital "noise", in reality a form of distortion, is very hard to hear through because it is completely atonal, has no bearing upon or connection with the music, and is quite disturbing. But that doesn't mean it needs to be or is always part of the playback picture ...
Frank
It does when the problem is heard on the original digital recording done on a hard drive
But remember that to hear what is in the content of that digital file the recording still has to pass through a playback chain: it may be a top quality pro DAC with inbuilt headphone amp, feeding good headphones, that should get you fairly close to the "real" content. But if there is a problem anywhere in that apparently very simple, very direct chain from the digital file on disk to the headphones it will be dead obvious. Simply put, digital can be very easily corrupted, dirtied up by the most seemingly trivial thing, and if those aspects are not sorted out then you will never get clean sound ...It does when the problem is heard on the original digital recording done on a hard drive
Frank
I'm not really sure why a thread about the price of audio components has turned into a thread about analog versus digital.
Anyway, back on topic and asking the original question a different way: at what price point are manufacturers simply ripping consumers off?
Anyway, back on topic and asking the original question a different way: at what price point are manufacturers simply ripping consumers off?
The Krell KSA-250 arrived last night and it doesn't work. I'm sending it back for a refund. Ditto for the KBL since the left channel RCA output jack is dead and I need both the XLR and RCA outputs to work. I really do like the way the KBL sounds, but I need a preamp that is 100%. Back to the drawing board. The bummer is that I have to pack up that 140 lb monster Krell amp and get it back out of my listening room and into my vehicle.
Ah that sucks
I remember an article in Hi-fi News in the last year where they re-reviewed a KSA50, unfortunately the poor amp had been tweaked so much it was in a bad way and required the assistance of the local distributor to rebuild the amp to near what it was originally.
The kicker is that the KSA50 after rebuild managed an amazing review score, better than many high end amps today, although the build quality would not pass manufacturing/electronic standards of today (amazing how much the requirements have changed in regulations).
Makes me wonder if a similar thing has happened to that KSA-250, and what it would had sounded like if was working well.
Cheers
Orb
Ah that sucks
I remember an article in Hi-fi News in the last year where they re-reviewed a KSA50, unfortunately the poor amp had been tweaked so much it was in a bad way and required the assistance of the local distributor to rebuild the amp to near what it was originally.
The kicker is that the KSA50 after rebuild managed an amazing review score, better than many high end amps today, although the build quality would not pass manufacturing/electronic standards of today (amazing how much the requirements have changed in regulations).
Makes me wonder if a similar thing has happened to that KSA-250, and what it would had sounded like if was working well.
Cheers
Orb
A friend of mine bought an used KSA100 some time ago - the more powerful version of the KSA50, but of similar age and design. He still claims it is the best transistor amplifier he has owned - and he has tried many. The only thing that the amplifier needed was replacement of all the electrolytic capacitors and of the fans of the the heatsink tunnels, that had become too noisy.
The KSA100 has a large group of followers - you can find several DIY projects to reproduce it in the net. Some people prefer it (and the KSA250 or KSA150) to the next generation of sliding bias Krell amplifiers.
Just to keep in the thread - all this people feel that anything over the price of their KSA50s, KSA100s or clones is excessive.
Mark,
Really sorry to hear of another misfortune. But, that is no reason to give up on SS or tubes for that matter. It is a matter that the equipment that either wasn't working properly prior to shipment or damaged in shipment. If it is the former then it is a problem with the seller not reporting the condition of the item properly.
Rich
Mark, Sorry to hear the Krell 250 was DOA
One of the issues with all gear of this age is that it is now beginning to show its age. I have been interested in a Krell KSA 50 for some time, but have not been able to find one that has not been, shall we say, well used! The same is probably true for the 250's that are on the market today....therefore, I think one has to be willing to go through the amp and replace parts in order to get them up and running reliably again.
BTW, I was not attempting to ask in my original post as to what price is it that manufacturers are trying to rip-off consumers. Instead, I was referencing Harry Weisfeld's comments that the potential to turn away future customers and hobbyists due to the current pricing structure should be a major concern. To some, it would seem that the current pricing structure in high-end is of no concern....why, because those that want to pay for the best will 'shell' it out regardless of the asking price. To those that cannot afford the best, well there are plenty of 'lesser' alternatives. At least that is the impression that i got when reading the various replying posts after my original post.
One of the issues with all gear of this age is that it is now beginning to show its age. I have been interested in a Krell KSA 50 for some time, but have not been able to find one that has not been, shall we say, well used!
The same is probably true for the 250's that are on the market today....therefore, I think one has to be willing to go through the amp and replace parts in order to get them up and running reliably again.BTW, I was not attempting to ask in my original post as to what price is it that manufacturers are trying to rip-off consumers
. Instead, I was referencing Harry Weisfeld's comments that the potential to turn away future customers and hobbyists due to the current pricing structure should be a major concern. To some, it would seem that the current pricing structure in high-end is of no concern....why, because those that want to pay for the best will 'shell' it out regardless of the asking price. To those that cannot afford the best, well there are plenty of 'lesser' alternatives. At least that is the impression that i got when reading the various replying posts after my original post. Yeah, I'm not happy right now. I guess that's what happens when you rummage around in the dustbins of yesteryear's gear. I am not looking forward to hauling that 140 lb monster out of my listening room and hauling it to UPS to ship it back to Canada. Krell re-opened today for the first time since the hurricane. They said to send it back to them, expect to wait 4-6 weeks, and have a $1K repair bill plus shipping both ways. I don't thnk so. I'm sending both Krell pieces back to the sellers and rethinking my position on where I'm going next.
Mark,
Most of us selling on Audiogon are quite honest and we try to make things right is something is wrong or in error. Don't give up on the Krell products, just make sure that the items are working properly and communicate with the sellers for confirmation prior to the purchase. In the mean time, you have the luxury of waiting for just the right pieces of equipment and you can use the fully functioning Yamaha and Phase Linear pieces.
Here is a link to an available Krell KBL right now:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1319052580&/Krell-KBL-Preamplifier-w/power
Here is a link for a Krell KSA-200S right now:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1318884191&/Krell-KSA-200S-Power-Amplifier
Rich
Rich-I do think both sellers were being honest and thought both pieces were working perfectly before they sold them to me. Both are refunding my money. Both have perfect feedback. So this isn't a case where I wasn't sure the sellers said they were working perfect before the sold them to me. All you can do is ask and looik at their feedback record. Sometimes bad things happen during shipping. The KSA-250 came from Canada and there is a lot of bad things that can happen to a package that big on the way from Canada to Indiana. I'm just bummed right now. And yeah, my other much older SS gear is working perfectly along with my Krell KPE Reference phono stage.
Mark
Mark
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