How much is too much?

[naturephoto1]

Rich-I do think both sellers were being honest and thought both pieces were working perfectly before they sold them to me. Both are refunding my money. Both have perfect feedback. So this isn't a case where I wasn't sure the sellers said they were working perfect before the sold them to me. All you can do is ask and looik at their feedback record. Sometimes bad things happen during shipping. The KSA-250 came from Canada and there is a lot of bad things that can happen to a package that big on the way from Canada to Indiana. I'm just bummed right now. And yeah, my other much older SS gear is working perfectly along with my Krell KPE Reference phono stage.

Mark

Hi Mark,

I completely understand having had some pieces damaged in shipment as well and just recently. It can very frustrating and disappointing.

Rich

 

[DaveyF]

Hi LLoyd, still using and loving my SF GH's.
Mark, Krell amps can be really great with certain speakers...with your DefTech's, I would think they would work well. The KSA 250 in particular was one of their better pieces, IMO.
Might want to give the line a second chance, that is if you can find one that has been well looked after.
Alternatively, depending on budget, maybe a Pass labs amp would be worth looking into.

 

[JackD201]

For some reason, Plinius, keeps coming to mind. Any on the Gon in your range Mark?

 

[Orb]

Yeah, I'm not happy right now. I guess that's what happens when you rummage around in the dustbins of yesteryear's gear. I am not looking forward to hauling that 140 lb monster out of my listening room and hauling it to UPS to ship it back to Canada. Krell re-opened today for the first time since the hurricane. They said to send it back to them, expect to wait 4-6 weeks, and have a $1K repair bill plus shipping both ways. I don't thnk so. I'm sending both Krell pieces back to the sellers and rethinking my position on where I'm going next.

That was about the cost for HifiNews to get the KSA50 fixed for their review.
The problem with the age is unless the seller has had it from new they do not know what tweaks have been done internally, and for whatever reasons some feel the need to modify their KSAs so it is possible the seller purchased one of these compromised ones.
I do not blame you sending back to seller.
Looking inside an original they are built like tanks, and pretty crude compared to modern electronics.
Cheers
Orb

 

[microstrip]

That was about the cost for HifiNews to get the KSA50 fixed for their review.
The problem with the age is unless the seller has had it from new they do not know what tweaks have been done internally, and for whatever reasons some feel the need to modify their KSAs so it is possible the seller purchased one of these compromised ones.
I do not blame you sending back to seller.
Looking inside an original they are built like tanks, and pretty crude compared to modern electronics.
Cheers
Orb

Orb,
IMHO you can not compare the complexity of the KSA250 with that of the KSA50. A KSA50 at decent condition can be completely refurbished to like new condition for a fraction of the cost of doing the same job in a KSA250.

BTW, did I say that when you buy a KSA250 you should also get a pair of Sonus Faber Extrema?

 

[FrantzM]

For some reason, Plinius, keeps coming to mind. Any on the Gon in your range Mark?

I would also vouch for Plinius ... One of the best SS out there or Edge Electronics which I have never seen mentioned in the WBF .. Both are from good to superlative

 

[LL21]

BTW, did I say that when you buy a KSA250 you should also get a pair of Sonus Faber Extrema?

T-O-T-A-L-L-Y ! ! ! That is a great call...older SF's responded incredibly well with Krell...i still remember this after all these years. Even today's mid-level SFs go well with Krell in a way the Homage series (to my ear) does not.

If i ever went with a second system all second-hand, i would absolutely consider an older Class A krell and a pair of Extremas...that would actually be pretty awesome as first system!!!!!

 

[Orb]

Orb,
IMHO you can not compare the complexity of the KSA250 with that of the KSA50. A KSA50 at decent condition can be completely refurbished to like new condition for a fraction of the cost of doing the same job in a KSA250.

BTW, did I say that when you buy a KSA250 you should also get a pair of Sonus Faber Extrema?

You did read where I said this is how much it cost to rebuild, meaning it was not a fraction of the cost
The figure I suggested is accurate and how much it did cost them (which they paid and hence how they know how good the KSA50 is).
And no suggesting they were ripped off
More seriously, the price would reflect the same procedure as Meps for repair/refurbishment as it involved Absolute Sounds distributor and Krell, I can try to find the article to double check though.
Cheers
Orb

 

[mep]

I took the top off of the Krell to have a look-see for anything that might be obviously amiss and I couldn't find anything. This KSA-250 appears to these eyes to be unmolested. There is a lot under the hood on the KSA-250. This is a monster size amp with a monster size power transformer and it is chock-a-block full of circuit cards. Some amps (and even other components) when you take the top off and look inside, you feel like you bought a bunch of air. Not so with the Krell KSA-250. I paid $2190 for this amp including shipping. Hell, maybe it's worth investing another $1K in it if it would buy me at least 10 years of trouble-free use and sound half as good as people say it does.

 

[Steve williams]

As Davey said, I wouldn't give upon Krell too quickly

 

[mep]

So what's the opinion here? Should I return this amp for a full refund or send it to Krell and invest another $1K or so into it? That is the question.

 

[Steve williams]

The $1000 was an estimate I hope. Hopefully less than this

For my ears I loved Krell gear. I was the last SS gear I owned before I went to tubes. If it were me I would consider the repair as I have owned that amp and thought it to be a great performer

Mark, won't the seller return some of the $2100 (eg $1000) for you to fix the amp

 

[naturephoto1]

So what's the opinion here? Should I return this amp for a full refund or send it to Krell and invest another $1K or so into it? That is the question.

Hi Mark,

I am not sure what a used KSA-250 Krell normally sells for. But, I will say that though it does seem somewhat expensive, Krell service is quite good and they do know their product. When I had to send in my Krell KAV-250a/3 on more than one occasion due to shorting out a channel due to touching of speaker leads they returned the unit in excellent condition. In fact as I recall, the first time they even made an upgrade to the unit that had been done since I purchased my demo unit from my audio store. I thought that was special service because they did not have to do the upgrade for no additional cost.

It may be worth a conversation with the seller to see if he will give you a partial refund that you can apply to the repair. I suggest this because he is going to have to either try to get some insurance refund from the shipper or pay for any shipping and repair costs out of his pocket. You may try to recover say $250 (possibly more) from the seller and pay the additional $750 (or less if he refunds more). Also, this way, neither of you feel an issue and both parties can leave positive feedback on Audiogon. Krell will also let you know if there are any other issues that should be tackled, though that could potentially be costly. I have no idea what Krell would charge to recap the amp or if the quote (due to the age) would include that service.

Rich

 

[microstrip]

IMHO, the greatest drawback of the KSA250 was the very long warm up time - more than two hours before sounding good. When cold it was un-listenable - if friends arrive for a listen session unexpectedly you have to keep them away for a long time . And I liked a lot more its sound using an Audio Research LS2 preamplifier (one single tube with a balanced solid state buffer) than with the KBL.

The average used price at Audiogon Bluebook is USD 2780 - a good sign is that the used price did not decrease during the last 10 years.

 

[mep]

The $1000 estimate included the cost of the repair and a recap job. Steve, the seller thinks it is something really simple (of course he really doesn't know) and I'm real sure he would not refund $1000 of my money.

 

[Steve williams]

how do you know it was damaged in shipping rather than coming damaged from the seller

as to Rich's comments about upgrades at Krell, I had the same experience with my Krell TAS which I sent back several years ago for a faulty channel and they did all of the upgrades at no charge to me

 

[mep]

Steve-I'm taking the seller at his word that it worked fine before he shipped it to me. His feedback on Audiogon is 100% positive. I too have heard great things about Krell service, but I wonder if things have changed since Dan the man isn't running the show anymore??

 

[FrantzM]

Have you spoken to Krell? I would talk to them and if the answer is not what you would to hear, persist, ask to talk to someone else .. If that fails, then give it some time and call again ... and again. I suspect that $1000 may repair both units. Just a matter of communications and patience. At the end, it is in their interest to repair their products.
Alternatively you could ask people on this very board who to talk to at Krell.. This usually goes a long way in solving problems. You still have the Phase Linear ...
Now let's try to get back on track it was about How much is too much ..

 

[Steve williams]

Not sure if he is still there but my go-to guy was always Patrick Bresnahan

 

[MylesBAstor]

Hi Mark,

I am not sure what a used KSA-250 Krell normally sells for. But, I will say that though it does seem somewhat expensive, Krell service is quite good and they do know their product. When I had to send in my Krell KAV-250a/3 on more than one occasion due to shorting out a channel due to touching of speaker leads they returned the unit in excellent condition. In fact as I recall, the first time they even made an upgrade to the unit that had been done since I purchased my demo unit from my audio store. I thought that was special service because they did not have to do the upgrade for no additional cost.

It may be worth a conversation with the seller to see if he will give you a partial refund that you can apply to the repair. I suggest this because he is going to have to either try to get some insurance refund from the shipper or pay for any shipping and repair costs out of his pocket. You may try to recover say $250 (possibly more) from the seller and pay the additional $750 (or less if he refunds more). Also, this way, neither of you feel an issue and both parties can leave positive feedback on Audiogon. Krell will also let you know if there are any other issues that should be tackled, though that could potentially be costly. I have no idea what Krell would charge to recap the amp or if the quote (due to the age) would include that service.

Rich

I agree. Also you know Krell will totally check the units out and make sure they are up to snuff.