In wall cables for EU 230V circuit

[luca.pelliccioli]

I’m evaluating an upgrade to be realized next spring along with a “light refurbishment” of my room (again).

I have 5 dedicated lines from a dedicated panel that run separately to 5 Furutech SWS NCF wall sockets. Currently I’m using common 2,5 mm2 wires, phase neutral earth each, at least common here in Italy I mean.

Having 220V electricity the AWG required might be different than typical 10 AWG used in 120V systems, that general consensus in audiophile world seems to agree as the best solution.
Solid is not an option, then only stranded copper is doable due to the size and shape of conduits.

The maximum diameter should be 1,2-1,3 mm, shielding included for each cable, otherwise I have to limit to maximum 2 dedicated lines (it would imply a few sockets connected in parallel from the same line).

A dealer offered me these ones:

Rubber Sleeve Cable Titanex ®; 3 x 2.50 mm²; rubber, Ø 12,50 mm; black | 700-0101-0325TI

You won‘t make a mistake...if you go with the flow, for the H07RN-F rubber jacket lead is one of the best-selling cables on the world market. It can be used as a power line for audio components, spotlights and heavy machinery (mechanical engineering) and…

www.sommercable.com

SUPRA LoRad 3x2.5 SPC (Silver Plated Copper)FULLY SHIELDED POWER CABLE

CABLE ONLY -DIY Supra LoRad SPC - Silver Plated Copper mains flex 40TH Anniversary cable! HiFI Choice Recommended April 2017 We proudly present a brand new LoRad mains flex version comprising Silver Plated Copper strands for dramatically improved conductivity properties in addition to the Supra...

supracables.co.nz

While an audiophile friend suggested me this one:

Alpha Nano-Ag-Au Power Cable FP-S032N & FP-S35N | FURUTECH

Note* FP-S35N & FP-S032N have the same specifications <br /> Voltage rating: 20A 125V / 16A 250V

www.furutech.com

Any European tech guy/electrical expert can give me some suggestions?

Any member here who can share some experience with 220V in wall audiophile cables?

TIA

 

[mtemur]

My best advice: don’t proceed unless you’re using solid core. I can’t stress enough how crucial this is. Avoid stranded cables, even the highest quality won’t perform as well. For a dedicated AC line longer than 5 meters, solid core is essential—there’s no substitute. Also, while you’re at it, consider removing the Furutech NCF. I understand there aren’t many good alternatives for Schuko receptacles, but the NCF just doesn’t sound good. If you or anyone thinks otherwise I’m sorry.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Thanks for your answer.

I’m not an expert indeed and any suggestion is much appreciated.

Unfortunately solid core is not an option, due to bending required along the run inside the conduits. I have the dedicated panel in a room close to the system, it means a max 7-10 meters length is needed.

As for NFC sockets it’s pretty uncommon your comment, I thought there was a general consensus about those. I’ve been using them for 2 years and found they sound better than my previous (non audiophile sockets). What’s your favorite sockets?

 

[Argonaut]

Stick to OFC or higher grade copper , if within the budget.

 

[mtemur]

Unfortunately solid core is not an option, due to bending required along the run inside the conduits. I have the dedicated panel in a room close to the system, it means a max 7-10 meters length is needed.

Than you have no option. Stick to the original cable inside the wall it’s certainly a solid core.

As for NFC sockets it’s pretty uncommon your comment, I thought there was a general consensus about those. I’ve been using them for 2 years and found they sound better than my previous (non audiophile sockets). What’s your favorite sockets?

Many people use rhodium-plated plugs and receptacles, thinking they sound good, but they really don’t. I switched to US (Japanese) type plugs and receptacles and stopped using Schuko a long time ago. I prefer unplated, pure copper plugs and receptacles. Unfortunately, options are limited with Schuko. Brands like Oyaide, Furutech, Synergistic Research, and Hubbell offer great alternatives, as long as you avoid rhodium and focus on the simpler options like copper or brass. If you go with a plated option, I find Oyaide’s palladium plating the most natural (or least harmful) sounding. In my experience, most other platings—especially Furutech’s rhodium—sound terrible. Furutech’s plating is particularly poor, both in sound quality and durability, as it scratches easily.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

it’s certainly a solid core

They are common wires currently, pretty common in Italy for domestic use. 2,5mm2 16A each.
Pics taken 2 years ago when I refurbished the room.

 

[mtemur]

They are common wires currently, pretty common in Italy for domestic use. 2,5mm2 16A each.
Pics taken 2 years ago when I refurbished the room.

I can’t tell from the pictures but they’re ok as long as they’re solid core. And certainly better than multi strand wire.

BTW instead of 5 dedicated lines using a single dedicated line with a thicker solid core is much better regarding preventing possible ground loops, EMI between lines and possible bottlenecks.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

They are not solid core, unfortunately.

https://www.overtec.it/media/k2/items/cache/4695cb3b19cbf906e45dac0da0913068_XL.jpg

 

[engadin]

To the best of my knowledge it is obligatory to use solid core for in wall mains cables and obligatory to use stranded mains cables outside the wall - in most parts of Europe.
Italy? Not sure, I would expect that as well in Italy.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Italian code seems to be different and 99% of houses run stranded wires inside PVC pipes (flexible in wall and rigid outside the wall). All electric circuits certified by law.

 

[tedwoods]

For this purpose I had used the GigaWatt LC-Y EVO, along with their circuit breaker.
Unfortunately, I can't directly compare against anything else though, as these were the only "audio approved" ones I could find locally.
They replaced the "vintage" in wall cables in our living room (also the "audio room") that were there since the 60's...
Here's a random link: https://avcorp.pl/product-eng-3271-Installation-cable-GigaWatt-LC-Y-EVO-3x4QMM-on-meter.html

 

[Rocoa]

After having implemented many dedicated lines over the last 40 years I have installed two in my new home. In many other installations I have used different types of cables.
I used the Furutech s55n cable, 6 mm in section. To do this I removed the PVC outer cover and and I put transparent heat shrink.
The sockets Furutech NCF.
The results have been spectacular.

 

[ssfas]

Thanks for your answer.

I’m not an expert indeed and any suggestion is much appreciated.

Unfortunately solid core is not an option, due to bending required along the run inside the conduits. I have the dedicated panel in a room close to the system, it means a max 7-10 meters length is needed.

As for NFC sockets it’s pretty uncommon your comment, I thought there was a general consensus about those. I’ve been using them for 2 years and found they sound better than my previous (non audiophile sockets). What’s your favorite sockets?

Luca, I installed Neotech 4003 mains from my consumer unit in a UK 230v system. It's rated 27A and very flexible.

For two longer runs (for AV and modem) I used the standard Belden 19364, which is a bit stiffer. I use some Supra Lo-Rad for power leads and it is even stiffer, but built for durability.

The 4003 is silver plated OFC with a drain cable, there are UP-OCC versions.

Mains Cable | HIFICollective

Mains Cable

www.hificollective.co.uk

I got mine from HiFi Collective. You can get samples, may be easier to get from Audiophonics in France.

 

[ssfas]

They are common wires currently, pretty common in Italy for domestic use. 2,5mm2 16A each.
Pics taken 2 years ago when I refurbished the room.

Incidentally, a 6mm cable is a bad idea. It is a 32A rated cable with a 40A breaker and is will likely be illegal into a 13A socket.
I have such a cable for my induction hob, draws a huge amount of power, and it is totally unwieldy. It may also require a separate isolator.
2.5mm cable is standard for sockets here in UK/EU with 16A breakers and is perfectly fine even here where we use ring circuits.
I have dedicated spurs for audio, AV, modem and the line impedance is down at a very respectable 0.18ohms. On measurements the cable doesn't seem to make a lot of difference, the main thing is to keep it as short as possible.
You can see my induction hob has lower line impedance because it has a 6mm live cable, but it's not that dramatically lower.

I am running a Gryphon Diablo 300 on the one cable, along with everything else. The UK/EU Diablo 300 has an 8A fuse and at full power it comes close to that in consumption, something like 1,900w (but you will probably go deaf). It is limited well below that. I doubt everything else together draws more than 1A. So a single cable is more than sufficient. It goes into a PM156 first port of call.

After the 8A fuse, the limiting factor is the 13A rated socket. (Fused in the UK.) The cable rating is likely to be irrelevant, as 2.5mm is going to be rated at least 16A. Things like 32A rated hobs can't be legally plugged into a wall socket - they have an internal connection panel.

 

[4music]

I've tried the Audience Hidden Treasure in-wall 5m run with terific results

 

[DasguteOhr]

In-akustic ac 2503m is a very good solidcore calble for inwall install 1m~10€

for wallsockets today would prefer neutrik powercon.system very low resistance contact, locking.
Inwall

A Single Gang Wall Plate With Choice of 1 or 2 Neutrik NL4MP Speakon Sockets | eBay

A choice of Single Gang Wall Plate With 1 Neutrik NL4MP Speakon Socket. A choice of Single Gang Wall Plate With 2 Neutrik NL4MP Speakon Sockets. Single wall plate for either flush or surface mounting (back box not supplied).

www.ebay.de

Powercon

https://www.amazon.de/4Packung-Powercon-Connector-Einbaubuchse-Verbinder/dp/B07V3LV25D/ref=asc_df_B07V3LV25D/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696184104678&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5687956212675681800&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1004507&hvtargid=pla-2281435176858&psc=1&mcid=ee5f27620dbf39ac9a0728fc529b8b77&th=1&psc=1&hvocijid=5687956212675681800-B07V3LV25D-&hvexpln=75&gad_source=1

 

[mtemur]

Incidentally, a 6mm cable is a bad idea. It is a 32A rated cable with a 40A breaker and is will likely be illegal into a 13A socket.

Why would it be illegal if the cable is rated for 32A but connected to a 13A socket? It’s perfectly safe and normal. If the receptacle is limited to 13A, then the circuit breaker protecting that line should also be rated at 13A. The wiring between the circuit breaker and the receptacle should be rated for at least 13A or higher to ensure safety.

 

[ssfas]

Why would it be illegal if the cable is rated for 32A but connected to a 13A socket? It’s perfectly safe and normal. If the receptacle is limited to 13A, then the circuit breaker protecting that line should also be rated at 13A. The wiring between the circuit breaker and the receptacle should be rated for at least 13A or higher to ensure safety.

We would only use a 32 amp rated cable for a directly wired high-powered device. We usually have a 16 amp circuit breaker on 2.5 mm mains cable. The 13 amp rating of plugs and sockets and the use of 13 amp fuses in UK plugs is to prevent the sockets and cables plugged into the socket from overheating. There are plenty of choices for 2.5 mm multifilament mains cables that would provide the flexibility @luca.pelliccioli requires. 32 amp wire tends to be solid core (I’ve never seen anything else), provide no electrical benefit and would likely be impossible to install because the conductors are too thick (6 mm) for the wall receptacle.

Here in the UK, a standard slow blow 13 amp fuse will run at 1.6 to 1.9 of the rated current for 30 minutes before blowing. That’s about 24 amps. The circuit breakers have a higher rating (16 amp for 13 amp conductors and 40 amp for 32 amp conductors) but trip much faster. If you have any wiring issues, it’s always going to be the circuit breaker to trip and not the fuse to blow.

So @luca.pelliccioli is far better doing what he is planning on doing and running several cables that will provide him with the flexibility and current that he requires, and I’m sure his electrician and his conditioners will deal with any grounding issues. I use the PM156 that he’s been using for a few years until getting the Gryphon. In the EU and UK get a fully compliant installation and you shouldn’t have any problems. The situation is different from the USA, we have strict codes and domestic wiring systems have to be certified by registered test electricians.

I think in Italy they have 16 amp and 10 amp receptacles and they look like they will only take a 2.5 mm cable. So it looks much the same as the UK. 2.5 mm is 14 AWG. 6 mm is 10 AWG. I presume in America you use thicker cable because you’re running low voltage and higher current. Here in the UK we use 1.5 mm cable for lighting (16 AWG) because lighting uses far less power and it’s far more practical.

 

[ssfas]

In-akustic ac 2503m is a very good solidcore calble for inwall install 1m~10€View attachment 138703

for wallsockets today would prefer neutrik powercon.system very low resistance contact, locking.
Inwall

A Single Gang Wall Plate With Choice of 1 or 2 Neutrik NL4MP Speakon Sockets | eBay

A choice of Single Gang Wall Plate With 1 Neutrik NL4MP Speakon Socket. A choice of Single Gang Wall Plate With 2 Neutrik NL4MP Speakon Sockets. Single wall plate for either flush or surface mounting (back box not supplied).

www.ebay.de

Powercon

https://www.amazon.de/4Packung-Powercon-Connector-Einbaubuchse-Verbinder/dp/B07V3LV25D/ref=asc_df_B07V3LV25D/?tag=googshopde-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=696184104678&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5687956212675681800&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1004507&hvtargid=pla-2281435176858&psc=1&mcid=ee5f27620dbf39ac9a0728fc529b8b77&th=1&psc=1&hvocijid=5687956212675681800-B07V3LV25D-&hvexpln=75&gad_source=1

@luca.pelliccioli mentioned that he can’t use solid core because it’s too stiff. For well insulated multi-filament copper the standard options would be Belden 19364 and Supra 2.5 Lo-Rad. I use both of these. They are high-quality cables made by massive industrial cable manufacturers.

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Thanks for all the advices.

I recently received a report from an Electrical Engineer (and audiophile) who tested for 1 week continuously my current. It seems I have a good quality current flow powering my system. Long story short he’s suggesting to keep all as it is. The only little improvement would be provided (re)running the current 2,5 mm 2 wires twisted. This would further reduce interference along the dedicated lines.