Interest in New Transports
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Being a business, you may have no choice but to show the ML so as not to alienate any potential customers who are expecting to see a high-end piece. If someone brought in a SACD and all you had was a cheap DVD player to demo it off, you instantly lose credibility.
Nevertheless, the trend is clear - over the past 8 years, I've had thousands and thousands of downloads of my "Black CD White Paper" - teaching you how to burn a better CD. This has slowed down to a trickle. Last March, it was down to 800 downloads. This March, it is further down to just 150. Last Nov, after nearly 3 years, downloads of my Music Server white paper overtook downloads of the Black CD paper.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
For most people, this is a music server:
For the extremely advanced, something like this, and an outboard DAC is a music server:
Let's face it, audiophiles have cornered the market on "tweaky."
Tim
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Yup, dBpowerAmp is great, and does a nice job retrieving and displaying the metadata from several different online databases. The CES ripping talk sounds like the same gossip that has been passed around for years.
Let's add to that those Music Servers which come to mind: the Meridian Soolos, Olive, Kaleidescape, Qsonix, Bluesmoke, Linn, NAIM, Chord and there are many I am forgetting .. These are not cheap but ease of use is spectacular in some (QSonix, Olive, Kaledescape, Soolos) ... If you do assemble a Music Server yourself and from scratch, yes! it is not easy but those mentioned here just need to be plugged to a DAC and that's it .. Just like you would have done for transport ... So ...
I don't think I'll be buying a transport or even a CD player again. Once you transition to a music server it's hard to go back.
Definitely agree with this. As a customer if I were to go into a dealer looking to evaluate equipment (any equipment) and the player provided was a "cheap DVD transport" I would likely not be too happy and would seriously question the validity of the evaluation. I'm reasonable so I doubt I would hold it against the dealer (in the sense of losing credibility), but I would consider it to be an inconvenience.
Even if you had a copy of my disc on your server (or offered to load it) I would still be a bit skeptical. I know that music servers can sound great, but I also know that the devil is in the details of server, application, DAC, cables, ripping method, etc. For me it's way too many variables to take into consideration in the context of an audition.
Personally, I just bought a Wadia S7i and am seriously considering a 931/921 system with the transport sometime down the road. I'm not old (by most standards), but I do like playing physical media. I'm slightly in the market for a server and haven't yet found one that I would consider as appropriate for my needs. I'm no stranger to computers but have no desire to bring a computer-based server into the system. I was researching Mach2Music last night and gave up after reading some of the documentation and bugs associated with Amarra and PureMusic. I just want to play music, not mess around with the server.
I'm really hoping for a truly high-end appliance-style server and there are some decent options out there. Unfortunately, each has limitations and I have yet to find one that meets my needs.
It is a circular question. I am trying to see if any of you would come to our shop looking for a transport.
It costs us dollars to inventory showroom gear. Right now, we only have cheap DVD players as transports and the CD slot in our touchscreen PC. Question is if we should show the Mark Levinson No 512 SACD/CD player.
The reviews are good. And the sound I heard is also very good. The only reason I see value for it personally is SACD as mentioned.
Amir,
No doubt it is a great piece of gear. Anyway, rather than having concerns about the potential market success of a machine that integrates a SACD transport (that for sure affects the final price of the player), I would doubt about how interesting could be buying a player that doesn't have digital inputs.
As here in NYC I've been "forced" to convert to a music library streamed by my laptop (all my CDs are in Italy), I have to confirm that the switch is addictive. The ease of use is high, if you allow the physical presence of a computer to interact with. I also think that the spread of the iPads will kill, eventually, the market of fancy (but very expensive and invasive) music servers.
So, in the end, I would consider successful not machines that work as stand-alone DACs only, but machines that, independently on their DNA, can be interfaced with an external streamer.
I understand your point, but also consider that for many audiophiles these variables are part of a "game" that is fun to play. There's many audio aficionados that are very into cables (sometimes more than into music...), choosing a DAC is like choosing a CD player, and even the annoying part of CD upload is, in the end, re-paid by the overall comfort of having everything reachable by a single finger touch!
No Arguments here on any of that.
What I was getting at is what if I stopped into Amir's store to audition the Revel Salons. He's got them setup with some nice Levinson amplifiers and preamp and when I present the stack of my reference discs that I brought in with me I'm presented with a "cheap DVD transport" on which to play them. Regardless of any realities of the situation my perception is going to be that the playback chain is flawed and that will likely have an effect on my own mental evaluation of the Salons.
Later on I head into a competing dealer and evaluate Wilson Sophia 3s connected to a full ARC system. In that case I likely won't have the same perception issue and ultimately may give what I hear at the competing dealer more credence.... which may ultimately result in Amir losing a sale (no matter how good they sounded).
Most buying decisions made in Audio are based on an emotional response and a gut feeling. Once the field of competing products is narrowed those which remain will likely be evaluated on the basis of what feels "right." Any bit of doubt cast by the associated components used in the audition may skew the decision in one direction or another.
We can argue all day long about the merits of music servers, but in the reality of sales you want to be sure that you present as few obstacles as possible so as to ensure the opportunity to make a sale and gain a new customer.
Ok, AMP, now I get your point. You are perfectly right when you say that, for representative purposes, showcasing reference products in every category is helpful.
i bought a s/hand Zanden DAC over 4 years ago when people in UK thought i was a little nuts. I also suspected at the time the transitionto hi-res downloads would take longer than we all thought/hoped. Can any of us get hi-res downloads of even 25% of our existing collections of music...which for many of us is probably 1,000 albums or more? As for servers, i am one of those plug 'n play types who prefers to wait until server tech truly is plug and play. In sum, would i turn down a super offer on a s/hand SOTA transport? i admit...i would be tempted to at least audition it. at the moment, i opted for an Oppo blu-ray transport knowing that when i transition up to a server, i can still play movies so the moneyon Oppo is not wasted. But if someone showed me a sota s/hand transport now that i felt i could use for 5+ years...while i wait for server tech to mature and high-res downloads to come up, i might just audition to see how much difference it makes to my system. i suspect a lot.
but to answer Amir's original question, i would not invest a lot of capital in stocking high-end transports. I would not buy a brand new one, unless it allowed for alternative digital inputs for servers. so if you have a demo ARC 7, that would probably do great for auditions. and undoubtedly someone would buy it from you if you felt the need to unload it.
but to answer Amir's original question, i would not invest a lot of capital in stocking high-end transports. I would not buy a brand new one, unless it allowed for alternative digital inputs for servers. so if you have a demo ARC 7, that would probably do great for auditions. and undoubtedly someone would buy it from you if you felt the need to unload it.
IMHO your point is much more important you think that you are stating. System synergy between components is a key point in audiophile systems. I own an all ARC system with a high power VTL amplifier. Recently I borrowed an ARC Ref 110 amplifier - much less power than my big VTLs, but the system gained a coherency and musical drive that the mixed system can not approach.
I have no experience with current ML gear, but my bet is that a ML CD/SACD player should be the optimal complement for an all ML system, unless you are thinking about a much more expensive piece.
Completely agree and should have stated more clearly.
Frankly, Amir is asking two different questions:
1) Should he bring in an ML 512?
2) Is there a future in that product?
From the standpoint of a business owner these are two separate issues.
IMHO, he should bring in the product so as to be able to show Harman International's take on the state of the art. He may never sell a single one to any customer, but it's incredibly important as a sales tool (both of other equipment and of his business overall).
Unfortunately, I do think that it's a dead-end product as it lacks digital inputs... but if it's presence helps acquire 5 new customers who decide to spend money on other equipment then it was a useful investment.
Although I'm in a completely different business I'm often faced with a similar quandary. Do I make an investment in something which will may not directly generate any revenue but will (hopefully) act as an enabler for sales of other products and services? It's a tough one indeed.
Reminds me of the orange and black Turbo Cayenne at the Porsche dealer in town. Nobody would buy the thing, but it sure attracted folks to the showroom for a closer look. Then, they look around....
Lee
Lee
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