Introducing the LampizatOr Poseidon DAC

[Golum]

My question is will I be missing some of the joy if I just stick with the stock tubes and sound as Lampizator designed it with? I'm not seeking "perfection" or "the best," just a higher quality of sound presentation off CDs and digital downloads (not streaming). I really dislike tweaks, I just want to hear music (28K LPs, 7K 78s, 15.5K CDs, 250 R2R).

Maybe I should add that I am currently using a voltage regulated tube pair of 125 w monoblock Class A/B amps and possibly the Westminster Labs Rei amps. No one has offered an answer to my query yet.

Orrman-I notice that you have Devore O/96 speakers. I found that they are super warm and rich sounding, especially lovely on vocals and small instrumentals. I hope you enjoy your Poseidon.

You’ve already got the answer from the other guys but just to add - Lampi as is with stock tubes is a fantastic product so you can not go wrong.
My PoV on tube rolling - If I can use the analogy from airline industry - you paid for the business class seat on the Singapore Airlines long haul flight and you get offered while boarding to be upgraded for a small fee to the first class. I know i would go for it, but even business class is a top notch product

 

[orrman]

My question is will I be missing some of the joy if I just stick with the stock tubes and sound as Lampizator designed it with? I'm not seeking "perfection" or "the best," just a higher quality of sound presentation off CDs and digital downloads (not streaming). I really dislike tweaks, I just want to hear music (28K LPs, 7K 78s, 15.5K CDs, 250 R2R).

I plan to start with the stock tubes, probably listen a few hundreds of hours as everything settles in and then see how I feel. Tube rolling is never a must do, it's a nice to have option in my mind. If it sounds good to my ears as is, I won't chase changing it anytime soon. If I feel the desire to explore or upgrade, it's definitely a cheaper option than moving to a different / higher end DAC.

Orrman-I notice that you have Devore O/96 speakers. I found that they are super warm and rich sounding, especially lovely on vocals and small instrumentals. I hope you enjoy your Poseidon.

Thank you! The Devore are definitely leaning to the warmer side but I find them very natural sounding and engaging. They are like a cozy bed in winter that you just want to spend all your time between the sheets enjoying your time.

 

[DeMarko]

Part of the exploration is figuring out which tubes provide the biggest bang for the buck. With the Pacific the consensus is the KR 242s, which thread the needle between dynamics, tonality and warmth. The Poseidon is new enough that you can be a pioneer in this area! For the Horizon, there’s a few hundred pages of discussion on tube rolling. This is what you could begin a new thread on!

Not for me, it's not the consensus in my experience, 242 tubes never worked for me and the majority of people I know personally, both in two Golden Gates (1 and 2) and Pacific 1, I tried these DACs in several systems and we all preferred other tubes. But I do believe that in some systems these tubes could be preferred, I do know one system personally where the owner prefers 242.

 

[takacs75]

If anyone wants to experiment with tubes in the Posseidon or Pacific we discovered a new 6N1P substitution tube. Game changer Ultra linear, ultra low noise and so much fun to listen.

 

[SeagoatLeo]

Thank all of you for your comments concerning tube rolling for a DAC. However, my dealer has assured me that using the Poseidon first for it's Pre-Amp is more important for me as I split most of my listening between 28,500 LPs and 15,500 CDs. Does anyone know what the consequences of tube rolling are for the Pre-Amp, not just the DAC. Is it possible that optimizing the DAC will do the same or something worse for the Pre-Amp? This Pre-Amp is designed to be the best Lampizator ever included in their DACs.

I will be purchasing a multi-input distribution box with the phono (currently an EAR 324 w or without the Zesto Allesso but that could change) direct connected to the Poseidon.

I have excellent high end power cables. A better digital cable, possibly. After reading a portion of the 81 page tube rolling forum, I found tube substitutions such as the SRS-551 cost $500 to $1800 each!!! Audiophilia is not a hobby for me. It is to provide reasonable cost high quality music listening.

I purchased the Poseidon because my dealer stated this is a one and done purchase for decades. My wife and I auditioned the Von Schweikert Ultra 11 (and 9 for me as well) and hoped to replicate that experience (with an LP and 2 CDs of mine at two audio shows). Even without the Poseidon and Rei's, we are more than half way there.

 

[christoph]

Not for me, it's not the consensus in my experience, 242 tubes never worked for me and the majority of people I know personally, both in two Golden Gates (1 and 2) and Pacific 1, I tried these DACs in several systems and we all preferred other tubes. But I do believe that in some systems these tubes could be preferred, I do know one system personally where the owner prefers 242.

What where your preferred DHTs then in your GGs and Pacific?

 

[DeMarko]

What where your preferred DHTs then in your GGs and Pacific?

EML 45s Lampi Limited Edition.
Some very good 300B tubes were also good,
Taktsuki 300b for instance..
Again, this is system dependant, as you know. For example, I use "fast", dynamic, transparent cables, I like open, fast, dynamic speakers, so I don't need that extra speed of the 242 or slightly less so of the PX25 at the expense of losing fullness of the sound.

 

[godofwealth]

EML 45s Lampi Limited Edition.
Some very good 300B tubes were also good,
Taktsuki 300b for instance..
Again, this is system dependant, as you know. For example, I use "fast", dynamic, transparent cables, I like open, fast, dynamic speakers, so I don't need that extra speed of the 242 or slightly less so of the PX25 at the expense of losing fullness of the sound.

There’s a million choices for tube rolling in Lampi DACs. That more than anything is what sets them apart for those who like nothing better to do with their time than try new configurations. Witness the hundreds of pages in WBF devoted to tube rolling. The “old timers” in tube based high end products (ARC, CJ, McIntosh, VTL etc.) never realized this itch that audiophiles have to tube roll. This explains why Lampi has become so popular!

 

[godofwealth]

Thank all of you for your comments concerning tube rolling for a DAC. However, my dealer has assured me that using the Poseidon first for it's Pre-Amp is more important for me as I split most of my listening between 28,500 LPs and 15,500 CDs. Does anyone know what the consequences of tube rolling are for the Pre-Amp, not just the DAC. Is it possible that optimizing the DAC will do the same or something worse for the Pre-Amp? This Pre-Amp is designed to be the best Lampizator ever included in their DACs.

I will be purchasing a multi-input distribution box with the phono (currently an EAR 324 w or without the Zesto Allesso but that could change) direct connected to the Poseidon.

I have excellent high end power cables. A better digital cable, possibly. After reading a portion of the 81 page tube rolling forum, I found tube substitutions such as the SRS-551 cost $500 to $1800 each!!! Audiophilia is not a hobby for me. It is to provide reasonable cost high quality music listening.

I purchased the Poseidon because my dealer stated this is a one and done purchase for decades. My wife and I auditioned the Von Schweikert Ultra 11 (and 9 for me as well) and hoped to replicate that experience (with an LP and 2 CDs of mine at two audio shows). Even without the Poseidon and Rei's, we are more than half way there.

You do realize that with 45,000 albums, it would take you roughly 45 years to hear them all just once, if you listened to three albums a day on average!

 

[SeagoatLeo]

You do realize that with 45,000 albums, it would take you roughly 45 years to hear them all just once, if you listened to three albums a day on average!

I have at least 28,500 LPs and on Thursday night I heard 4. I have about 5 to 7,000 to discard. I inherited over 3,500 LPs (all classical vocal and opera/many duplicates) and purchased two collections since 2021 of another 2,500 LPs. I purchased/inherited 7,750 classical CDs in the past 15 months of which I intend to cull about 3,000+. 78s last for a few minutes but take more time to prepare to listen to.

I have a rule for myself, if I don't desire to hear a record or CD 3+ times annually, out it goes. I've disposed of 18,000+ records in the past several decades.

As to listening, I used to listen to instrumental music all day long while studying in high school, college, law school and management school, then for 28 years while writing commercial real estate appraisal reports. Now, down to 2 hours every evening plus additional daytime hours when available. I don't concern myself with having "too many" recordings. I am also an amateur recording engineer at various Los Angeles County venues with about 150 recordings, friends who are world renown remastering engineers (and have better sonic/golden ear abilities than me). I have been a music archivist/recording engineer for two lesser known composers for their 100th anniversary concerts. So, music is my great avocation (for free).

I am fortunate to have a room adjacent to my custom listening room with 18,000 LPs/3,500 78s/6.000 CDs available at my fingertips and another 12,000+ LPs, CDs, 78s in storage close-by as well.

I hope the reason for purchasing Lampizators is beyond just for the tube rolling audiophiles. I just want a long term enjoyment of music for myself, family and friends (with the Von Schweikert dispersion, it's a pleasure in every seat).

 

[Morganc]

If anyone wants to experiment with tubes in the Posseidon or Pacific we discovered a new 6N1P substitution tube. Game changer Ultra linear, ultra low noise and so much fun to listen.

@takacs75 what tubes are those and where is the link to your adapters ?

 

[godofwealth]

That’s amazing. I’ve been a collector of classical music for about 40 years. I think I have around 5000 CDs and SACDs. When I moved from the east coast to the Bay Area. I sold my vinyl collection of about 1500 LPs, since I didn’t know I’d have space for them. I rebuilt a small part of that. I listen a lot to jazz and popular music from the 1930s-1950s on vinyl in mono now. With high res streaming now a reality, I don’t buy physical media anymore. It’s hard to justify when there’s a million albums you can stream. But I still find pleasure in playing vinyl.

 

[godofwealth]

@takacs75 what tubes are those and where is the link to your adapters ?

That was exactly my thought as well. The original post was a bit of a tease. it’s like I found this great tube, but I’m not going to say what it was!

In a strange way, it reminded me of one of the mist famous conjectures in mathematics. In 1637, the mathematician Fermat wrote that he had discovered the most amazing proof of a conjecture, but that the margins of his notebook were too small to write the proof. It took mathematicians more than 350 years to prove Fermat’s theorem (actually a huge generalization of his original conjecture). Sir Andrew Wiles, who proved the theorem, was knighted for his achievement. The proof took 130 pages of the densest most abstract math then known. Fermat obviously didn’t have the goods. But he sent the mathematics community ablaze with his original conjecture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiles's_proof_of_Fermat's_Last_Theorem?wprov=sfti1

 

[SeagoatLeo]

That’s amazing. I’ve been a collector of classical music for about 40 years. I think I have around 5000 CDs and SACDs. When I moved from the east coast to the Bay Area. I sold my vinyl collection of about 1500 LPs, since I didn’t know I’d have space for them. I rebuilt a small part of that. I listen a lot to jazz and popular music from the 1930s-1950s on vinyl in mono now. With high res streaming now a reality, I don’t buy physical media anymore. It’s hard to justify when there’s a million albums you can stream. But I still find pleasure in playing vinyl.

I also listen to the same period of jazz and popular music. Plus, classical vocal from the acoustic era and 78 electrical era. Those recordings are 98% unavailable on streaming in high quality transfers. Major transfers of those 70,000+ recordings I have on CD and LP, about 1,500 CD are of 78s/cylinders are on Marston records, Romophone, Biddulph (piano and violin), Pearl, etc. Only Marston may begin streaming at a price (not free) but many of those CDs are out of print (permanently). Also, my 3,500+ ethnic music recordings are 85% unavailable for streaming (or on CD). Of the million albums, jazz and some pop I am mildly interested in. I have a small modern jazz collection of about 300 LPs and 1,000 CDs and 500+ LPs/400 78s of traditional jazz (pre-1940s).

 

[godofwealth]

You might have heard of this Brazilian collector who was buying up the world’s vinyl. He had roughly three million records when the NY Tines ran a profile of him about 10 years ago. I wonder how large his collection is today. What’s he going to do with it when he dies?

The Brazilian Bus Magnate Who’s Buying Up All the World’s Vinyl Records (Published 2014)

Since he was a child, Zero Freitas has been unable to stop buying records. Now he wants to save every album in existence.

www.nytimes.com

 

[SeagoatLeo]

You might have heard of this Brazilian collector who was buying up the world’s vinyl. He had roughly three million records when the NY Tines ran a profile of him about 10 years ago. I wonder how large his collection is today. What’s he going to do with it when he dies?

The Brazilian Bus Magnate Who’s Buying Up All the World’s Vinyl Records (Published 2014)

Since he was a child, Zero Freitas has been unable to stop buying records. Now he wants to save every album in existence.

www.nytimes.com

José Roberto "Zero" Alves Freitas had 8.5 million records over 5 years ago. He purchased 1.5 million from Thomas Chandler/Chandler's Wind-Up San Bernardino, CA (Thomas wanted me to value his 30,000 cylinders when I was in law school in 1979 but the records were 90 mile east). Music Man Murray, a former cantor, in Hollywood, CA had a reported a million records which Freitas bought. He liked me (probably because I have over 700 cantorial 78s and 1000s of cantorial recordings) which was very unusual. Then he purchased Jack Saul collection which was 300,000 records of which 60,000 was donated to the Jewish Music Archives at Florida State U. Boca Raton.

So, Freitas has been a very busy collector. He has a full time staff organizing the pallets of records he imported to Brasil.

Also, my friends and I purchased the best of the late Thomas Null collection, the great producer of Varese Sarabande, Newport Classics, etc. about 200,000 records/cds/master tapes. I purchased about 800 LPs and a friend paid big bucks for the rare jazz (over $50 market value) LPs. Unfortunately, his home and warehouse were in horrid condition and we went into a bug/mold infested house during the Covid 2020 summer in North Hollywood (wearing masks not because of Covid).

In 2013, Freitas bought the collection of Paul Mawhinney of Record-Rama, once itself thought to be the largest in the world at 3 million.

Mr. Freitas and I are nearly the same age, a few months apart (68). Who knows who will acquire a collection which is like a vacuum cleaner of other's collections. He purchases every type of record in every format with 30% said to be duplicates to be sold off.

 

[keithc]

And, Poseidon tubes are still cheap-er

Now that you've said this....

 

[christoph]

EML 45s Lampi Limited Edition.
Some very good 300B tubes were also good,
Taktsuki 300b for instance..
Again, this is system dependant, as you know. For example, I use "fast", dynamic, transparent cables, I like open, fast, dynamic speakers, so I don't need that extra speed of the 242 or slightly less so of the PX25 at the expense of losing fullness of the sound.

Funny, I still fail to find the magic in the EML 45 mesh Anniversary Globes
I tried them in every system and Lampi DAC I have/had and never liked them anywhere near my other favorite tubes.

If the AGs weren't that rare, I would have sold them long ago.

Now while writing this, I haven't tried the AGs in my newly upgraded Pacific 2 so far. Maybe the stars align this time but I sincerely doubt it

 

[JAB]

I have Laszlo’s new twin mini tubes and adapters in my Pac2
They are an incredible improvement over my 6n1p

There is major improvement in
Air: both regarding venue & between instruments
Soundstage: width & depth
Clarity
I have no experience with other 6n6p substitutions but these are amazing in my system and are a significant upgrade

 

[Nuforce]

EML 45s Lampi Limited Edition.
Some very good 300B tubes were also good,
Taktsuki 300b for instance..
Again, this is system dependant, as you know. For example, I use "fast", dynamic, transparent cables, I like open, fast, dynamic speakers, so I don't need that extra speed of the 242 or slightly less so of the PX25 at the expense of losing fullness of the sound.

Have you ever tried 46 globes? I use them with adapters and prefer them to my EML 45 mesh globes.