Magico M3 and M2 construction

[PeterA]

These are the first interior shots I've seen of these Magico speakers. Apparently the M Pro and M3 are constructed with aluminum skeleton structures similar to those in the Q series while the M6 and new M2 have carbon fiber monocoque structures. The new CF shells kind of remind me of the birchply cabinet of the Mini 2 with front and back aluminum baffles attached with tension rods and bolts through the cabinet.

It is interesting that the curved M2 aluminum top plate seems applied somehow to the curved carbon fiber box. It also seems as though there is a front panel attached to the CF box attached by screws. This may hold the mid and woofer drivers while the curved aluminum baffle holds the tweeter and is clamped to the aluminum rear baffle via those tension rods.

M3 cabinet:



M2 cabinet:

 

[Folsom]

I'm somewhat surprised no one has made some speakers out of steel, since there doesn't appear to be reservations about weight or anything once you get so far up.

 

[TLi]

I have taken some photos of the internal structure of my M6.

The 1/2" carbon fiber monocoque is manufactured by Apex Composites of Canada. This company makes monocoques for F1 racing cars and F-35 fighters. This carbon fiber hard-shell changes the sonic character of Magico. I used M Project before M6. M6 has a warmer sound.

M2 will certainly sound similar to M6 than other Magico before.

 

[Kcin]

Hmmm. My office is in Burlington, Ontario ... I wonder if I can get a tour at Apex?

 

[TLi]

Hmmm. My office is in Burlington, Ontario ... I wonder if I can get a tour at Apex?

Just go to John Lucas Drive, look forward to seeing your report on Apex Composites.

 

[PeterA]

I am starting to understand some of the high costs that go into these speakers. What fascinates me is that I have heard a few very different sounds out of my Magico Q3 and my friends M Project speakers over time, from thin and slightly bright, to warm, rich and natural tone. All of this was possible through simple, quick, (and free) slight changes in speaker position.

The speakers also seem quite transparent to changes in associated gear like cables, electronics, DACs, and cartridges. I am sure that the various model series - Q, S, M, A - sound different from each other based on materials and design changes, but I have also found it pretty easy to adjust the general sound of these particular systems through their interactions with the room or rest of the gear.

Are you saying that the M6 and M2 have a generally "warm" character in and of themselves, or are simply "warmer" than the M Pro speaker, if they were heard in isolation in the same identical system, room, and position? And if they are inherently "warmer" sounding, do you think they have a more neutral sound, or less sound of their own, than do the M Pro?

My assumption has always been that as Magico introduces new technology, they have strived for a more and more colorless cabinet or speaker sound, though with the S versus the Q, they were specifically going for a different sound and flavor to provide choices for those customers with different tastes. The M series seems to be the one which is striving for as much accuracy as possible.

I wonder how the development of the new carbon fiber monocoque cabinet affects what people think about the M3.

 

[TLi]

I am starting to understand some of the high costs that go into these speakers. What fascinates me is that I have heard a few very different sounds out of my Magico Q3 and my friends M Project speakers over time, from thin and slightly bright, to warm, rich and natural tone. All of this was possible through simple, quick, (and free) slight changes in speaker position.

The speakers also seem quite transparent to changes in associated gear like cables, electronics, DACs, and cartridges. I am sure that the various model series - Q, S, M, A - sound different from each other based on materials and design changes, but I have also found it pretty easy to adjust the general sound of these particular systems through their interactions with the room or rest of the gear.

Are you saying that the M6 and M2 have a generally "warm" character in and of themselves, or are simply "warmer" than the M Pro speaker, if they were heard in isolation in the same identical system, room, and position? And if they are inherently "warmer" sounding, do you think they have a more neutral sound, or less sound of their own, than do the M Pro?

My assumption has always been that as Magico introduces new technology, they have strived for a more and more colorless cabinet or speaker sound, though with the S versus the Q, they were specifically going for a different sound and flavor to provide choices for those customers with different tastes. The M series seems to be the one which is striving for as much accuracy as possible.

I wonder how the development of the new carbon fiber monocoque cabinet affects what people think about the M3.

I changed to M6 from M Project, so everything was the same except the speakers. The difference in sonic character between the two was quite obvious.

After using M6 for over one year now, I concluded the difference in sound is certainly contributed by the cabinet. Aluminium tends to sound bright and harsh, carbon is softer and more natural. M2 and M3 will be like M6 and M Project. They have different characters.

The other factor is the M Pod footer, it has a significant impact on the sound. M Pod is a softer and more mellow. For me I use two M Pods in front and one Stillpoints Ultra 5 at the back to achieve a balance I prefer.

 

[CKKeung]

I think Thomas is the Magico user who have first got this piece of insider info.
When he showed the internal photos of his M6 to us a few months ago, we were awed.
Even the local Magico dealer had no ideas of it.

It's now quite obvious that M6 and M2 have improved construction when compared to M3.
I very much hope that there will soon be a M3mk2 with an improved carbon fiber contruction enclosure similar to M6/M2.

 

[MJB]

I listened to the M2 multiple times at AXPONA and was very impressed. The CH Precision amps were a very good match for the speaker.

 

[Bodhi]

After using M6 for over one year now, I concluded the difference in sound is certainly contributed by the cabinet. Aluminium tends to sound bright and harsh, carbon is softer and more natural. M2 and M3 will be like M6 and M Project. They have different characters.

I realize you said “tends to sound bright and harsh”, but having owned the S5 Mk1’s, and now S5 Mk2’s (and having heard every other S series model many times), I have not found that. I do detect a little brightness in the A3’s top end, however that can be tamed with the right choice of amp & APods.

 

[TLi]

I realize you said “tends to sound and harsh”, but having owned the S5 Mk1’s, and now S5 Mk2’s (and having heard every other S series model many times), I have not found that. I do detect a little brightness in the A3’s top end however, but that can be tamed with the right choice of amp & APods.

Agree with you. That's why I said "tends to". Provided everything being equal, wooden cabinet will sound softer than carbon fibre which in turn will be softer than aluminium. This is just pure physics.

Of course, there are many factors that contribute to the final sound of a speaker, crossover, drive units and footers, etc. Having swap from M Project to M6, I certainly found M6 has a warmer sound. The carbon fibre monocoque is one of the important factors.

 

[Bodhi]

Agree with you. That's why I said "tends to". Provided everything being equal, wooden cabinet will sound softer than carbon fibre which in turn will be softer than aluminium. This is just pure physics.

Of course, there are many factors that contribute to the final sound of a speaker, crossover, drive units and footers, etc. Having swap from M Project to M6, I certainly found M6 has a warmer sound. The carbon fibre monocoque is one of the important factors.

Having owned Marten Coltrane Alto’s which employed similar carbon fiber monocoque construction to the M2/M6, I agree the carbon fiber cabinets have excellent self-damping and tonal purity. And based on my ear time on Wilson Benesch speakers, the addition of carbon fiber diaphragms seem to add natural warmth compared to ceramic Accutons.

Companies like Wilson Benesch and Rockport have long experience designing carbon fiber/composite cabinets. Similarly Magico have long experience designing aluminium cabinets. Most loudspeakers have some compromise to balance cost and performance, whilst the Magico M6 and Rockport Lyra are more cost no object designs.

I can certainly attest that the Magico S5 mk2’s aluminium cabinet is highly inert, even on energetic music passages. That is due to a number of design features incl: sheer mass (1/2" thick cabinet walls), a curved cabinet, heavy bottom plate with 4 point outrigger feet, machined 3D convex top plate etc. Though being aluminium, the cabinet still needs a little help. So Magico use 5-layer damping mats to prevent any audible ’excitement’ from the cabinet.

Alon Wolf and his CTO Yair Tammam have obviously done a brilliant job designing the S series which sound more relaxed than the Q series & are the ‘musical Magico’ for the rest of us.

 

[IanG-UK]

I find elements of this thread questionable.

If you showed cross sections of these four loudspeakers to the general public and asked which two speakers might sound more bright and harsh than the other two, I'd guess you might get 70% saying M3 and M Pro and 30% saying you cannot tell. Why? Because aluminum is perceived to be bright and relatively hard.

Equally If you showed cross sections of these four loudspeakers to the general public and asked which two speakers might sound more soft and blurred than the other two, I'd guess you might get 70% saying M2 and M6 and 30% saying you cannot tell. Why? Because carbon is perceived to be damped and relatively soft.

And here we have four speakers designed with many years' experience by two of the world's finest designers, who originally (in this series) designed the M Pro to be their finest ever domestic offering, perhaps having a conversation at that time proposing that they made the speaker a touch bright and harsh to sympathise with its aluminium innards?

 

[Folsom]

Huh? That makes no sense. The cabinet isn't a driver, it's thick and inert.

 

[MTB Vince]

Just go to John Lucas Drive, look forward to seeing your report on Apex Composites.

I just read through this thread to discover that the guys at Apex Composites are subcontracting some composite work for Magico. Too funny. Years ago I was their first client with a Hi-Fi project. I had originally planned to have the huge top shelf CNC machined from lamination of Baltic Birch plywood as per the pic below.

Burlington Exotic Woods would do the plywood lamination and they told me about Apex Composites whom had just bought a big new CNC machine. Apparently Apex was actively soliciting outside work to help amortize their expensive equipment investment. When I visited Apex and spoke with Jerry (over a decade ago), he successfully argued the advantages of making the shelf the same way they made most of the projects scattered about the shop at the time- a composite skin with super stiff strips of uni-directional carbon laminated to a CNC machined core of structural foam. The WIP pic below was early in the work and you can see the two protruding strips of the unidirectional carbon stiffeners protruding from the bottom.

When the shelf was completed 10 months later ( Apex had picked up several military aerospace contracts in the interim!), it was every bit as amazing as Jerry had advertised.

And finally a pic of the completed rack.

 

[ack]

 

[thesaint519]

Fellow audio enhtusiasts,

I hope this message finds you in good health & great spirits. Pls allow me this indulgence. I'm a long time Wilson Audio owner. I've enjoyed three Watt/Puppy iterations, culminating with the Sasha I'd. But Ive been strongly considering changing camps. And no, I don't have endless reserves of recreational cash to plop down on whatsoever speaker is the current hottest SOTA. However, based on extensive research, I'm considering the M2 or a second hand M3. Can anyone help with advice? Thank you in advance...

 

[ecwl]

I'm a long time Wilson Audio owner. I've enjoyed three Watt/Puppy iterations, culminating with the Sasha I'd. But Ive been strongly considering changing camps. And no, I don't have endless reserves of recreational cash to plop down on whatsoever speaker is the current hottest SOTA. However, based on extensive research, I'm considering the M2 or a second hand M3. Can anyone help with advice? Thank you in advance...

From what I have read here, everyone who has heard both seem to think M3 has significantly more bass than the M2. So coming from a Sasha W/P, I suspect you’ll prefer the used M3 if you can find one. I’m perfectly happy with my M2 but I have a smaller room.
That said, if you’re upgrading from a Sasha W/P, going to a Sasha V or M2 or used M3 would be quite a jump in sonic performance. The danger is that you’ll start hearing more from the dCS Delius and Purcell and might want to upgrade those after as DAC technology has advanced even more compared to speakers IMHO