Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers
- Thread starter thomask
- Start date
Cocktail bar in Seoul recently installed vintage system consisting of EV Regency speaker made in 1950s and Mackintosh amp made in 1980's.
Pre amp appears to be also vintage Marantz.
It sounds comfortable.
So back in June 2023, you were having second thoughts on using super tweeters. Where did you end up? Are you still using them... and if so, still firing up, to the rear or forward? I'm considering trying them on my Model 19's.
My high frequency hearing has been lost. I can not “hear” the frequencies assigned to the super tweeters, however the whole presentation sounds better with the super tweeters. I assume I am sensing some sort of psychoacoustic effect with the super tweeters included.
I do not think it's psychoacoustic, when I adjust my tweeter just right the low end improves by a lot. We tested that blind and it's very easy to reproduce and detect.
I heard this with a murata super tweeter where it made it seem like a sub had been turned on!
who needs new speakers when all boxes where ticked by this WE 15 about 100 years ago
If not "psychoacoustic", then what? Please explain to me how post-crossover single SET amped bass output power is increased/potentiated/better expressed, or what-have-you by using a crossover switch to apply the highest frequencies of the pre-delineated treble spectrum to a pair of super tweeters? If bass output is perceived to be boosted or enhanced by the addition of super tweeters in double-blind listening tests, please explain what is happening to explain such?
there is far more going on in Audio than we're able to understand and explain, it might be something to do with phase coherence and overtones of low frequencies but in all honesty; "I have decided to accept the things we discover to work as is and be happy with the discovery'
The fact that we cannot explain something does not mean it cannot exist, see some examples from history (roud earth etc)
The fact that we cannot explain something does not mean it cannot exist, see some examples from history (roud earth etc)
This has been my experience as well. For example, my horn tweeter uses a first-order crossover at 6500 Hz. Changing the crossover cap to a different brand of the same value not only changes the sound of the treble but it also can have a significant impact on the low frequency performance. The same thing occurs when I change the connecting wires from the crossover to the tweeter. I wouldn't go so far as saying changing the cap or connecting wires is like adding a sub (or removing a sub); the real bass response doesn't go deeper. What I notice is the range from lower midrange down to the mid-bass can have more (or less) weight and can become warmer (or less warm) and more detailed (or less detailed).
What is causing that change in a frequency outside of the realm of the Super Tweeter? What do you classify the perception as?
Oh errr, and the other end of the room had these, 30 years later....also better than most if not all newly designed speakers I heard in the past decade or two.
I don't have a satisfying technical explanation for the changes. Even with a first-order crossover, the electrical response is down quite a bit in the bass; and of course the tweeter's response drops like a stone below 1K. I highly doubt there is any measurable change in bass frequency response. As @MarcielNL said, the more likely reason is related to phase issues and overtones.
I concluded many years ago that while I like to find technical explanations for what I hear, often there aren't any. Why do wires sound different? Why do resistors and capacitors that measure the same sound different? Why do different brands of the same tube sound different? One can speculate as to reasons but I have yet to find explanations that satisfy me for these and many other matters.
Measurements have their place to be sure, but in the end it's what our ears hear that is most important, whether or not the subjective findings have technical support.
Religion? Psychoacoustics is the study of the psychological effects of sound.
If you place rust preventer into the radiator of your car and then notice your car seems to be running better than before you added it, can you attribute that improvement in the motor’s performance due to the addition of the rust preventer (Not humidity, barometric pressure, or whatever). What if you put your buddy in the car and take him for a ride and he thinks it is running better too, then that is surely evidence of causation, no?
you perceived a sound change (of better bass outcome) after adding super tweeters, a psycho-acoustic effect. The two events can not be explained through any scientific means so that perception related to sound must simply be described as “psychoacoustic “.
Marcel, do you know what electronics are being used with those Bionors? Why do you think they sound better than most of the new speaker designs? What do you like about them that you do not hear from modern speakers?
Nice room. Where is this pair located?
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If you reread my previous post you may note that we tested this effect blind. No rust preventer was harmed in that study.
The lack of a scientific explanation does not make things like dark matter go away, dogma's are killing people ;-)
Ok, for clarity (as I think you need some), for the example of rust preventer in your radiator and your car suddenly seeming to have more power, say your friend who confirms it is blind. Say you put three friends, all blind, in the car and they agree that it is running better. How does that confirm that the rust preventer is responsible?
You are not happy with rust preventer? OK, say you put new mag wheels on your car, same width and circumference, same tires, and it seems to run better to you and your blind friends. Does that establish cause and effect?
I see you have expensive cables, power cords, furotech connecters , power conditioners etc., just wondering, did you purchase those or were they gifts?
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