Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers

[bonzo75]

@bonzo75 … Ok , where do the following transducers fit into this topic scenario ? hORNS Universum MK4 , Cessaro Gamma II , AVG Trio III , Acapella Cellini ( Plasma tweeter ) , AER Pnoe , Tune Audio Anima , All Modern Transducers, in the main constructed from modern materials not utilised or available back in the Golden Age .

Yes those are modern drivers. Cessaros use TAD (not modern) + Supravox (modern).

Not sure what Tune audio Anima uses, but someone speculated it was a modernization of Fostex.

 

[bonzo75]

Hello bonzo75

Ok to say that the JBL Everest 2 doesn't use modern drivers is incorrect. The difference between modernization and using modern drivers is semantics. One is the process the other use of the modernized drivers. You are not addressing the new TAD coax drivers.

There are so many changes in JBL drivers since the original alnico drivers I couldn't possibly list them all. With the goal of lowered distortion levels and increased power handling and reducing power compression.

The drivers are night and day a late 50's alnico vs a dual differential drive neo.

Rob

With JBL if you mentioned their modern drivers, or GPA Altecs, or today's Tannoy, I would agree. But TAD 4003 is the old driver, not new version of today's driver. The JBL Leif uses is the 2220a.

 

[Argonaut]

Yes those are modern drivers. Cessaros use TAD (not modern) + Supravox (modern).

Not sure what Tune audio Anima uses, but someone speculated it was a modernization of Fostex.

It isn’t just a matter of the driver implementation , lets also consider the more modern materials utilised in the construction of the horn enclosures of say the Cessaro or Avantgarde … most certainly the AER Pnoe in its entirety .

 

[bonzo75]

It isn’t just a matter of the driver implementation , lets also consider the more modern materials utilised in the construction of the horn enclosures of say the Cessaro or Avantgarde … most certainly the AER Pnoe in its entirety .

Those horns everything is new - drivers, horn material, and in some the design too.

In a dual FLH using vintage drivers, but a modern horn material for the mid-upper range - ok, I would still call that based on vintage, and again modernized is different from modern.

horns universum, for example, is modern drivers, modern material, and importantly a design that is purposefully made to fit in smaller rooms. AER would be modern even if it used wood instead of modern material

By that logic, very few vintage owners except for collector's are using authentic vintage. Most are modernizing vintage, maybe crossover components, some material here or there. Altecs that come out of the cinema sound plan ****

 

[hopkins]

Having been using a late 1940s Altec 755A for over a month now, I can testify that it does things that no other speaker I have heard can do.

My experience is much more limited than some of you when it comes to vintage drivers, but over the years I've had my share of listening to high end modern speakers in all shapes and forms. All these systems seem to struggle with music, it is exhausting to listen to them.

 

[MarcelNL]

Aside from magnets having different strength the materials they are made of also have different hysteresis, IMHO that is why a Field coil does so well. Many folks go blind on specs like BL or a gazillion Tesla but that is not the only important aspect.
It's not without reason that a large percentage of all 'custom' or proprietary speaker chassis are made with a few large manufacturers.

sometimes a proven design and speaker is best, sometimes a more modern material does better....although lately I'm more and more convinced that there is a lot to say for keeping things simple and organic.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

it´s not the ingridients alone that does the soup
the "Chef" is equally important

most people don´t know how to make a Caesars salad, but still very many do.....

 

[gian60]

have a listen to the We 15a using the oldest 555 driver....dynamics, natural sound and musical booting a grand sound, the Klangfilm sound is more laid back and organic but has the same qualities presented differently...

My friend living 5 minutes from my home has 15A and 555,with ANJ M10,Kegon and ongaku,good sound but nothing exceptional for me

 

[bonzo75]

My friend living 5 minutes from my home has 15A and 555,with ANJ M10,Kegon and ongaku,good sound but nothing exceptional for me

With vintage there are a lot of bad samples of everything.

I have never heard a WE sound good outside of the one's Cheung brings to Munich. There are very few good WE samples, and Cheung has collected as many as he can. And the ones he brings to Munich, are not just the stock speaker, but he often combines two speakers to form one channel. Also, he adds GIP tweeter, and sometimes subs.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

the WE15 might well be the least interesting of 12, 13 and 16....

 

[morricab]

TAD and JBL are not modern drivers.

As a design, a Dual FLH is not modern, the WE mirrophonic started dual FLHs, which were reflected in RCA shearer, Altec 817, JBL 4550, etc. Leif's is a slightly different design of dual FLH for the horn structure, similar crossover levels to an 817 at 550, and uses 300b. Adding a sub is the only "modern" part, if at all.

Bionor is also dual FLH but unlike the above uses a lot of open baffle addition in the design, or biamping the woofers with a class D.

By this argument nothing is modern, Ked. The moving coil driver dates back to the 1920s, electrostats and ribbons possibly earlier and the plasma flame as a sound source to the 19th century. You know darn well I am talking about modernized drivers, crossover parts etc. So, don't put words into my mouth to fit your agenda.

 

[MarcelNL]

the WE15 might well be the least interesting of 12, 13 and 16....

I'd love to be able to do a head to head comparison...

 

[morricab]

Ok, false reporting, given your lack of experience with these.



Ah I see, agenda based reporting that finally comes down to your gear.

Not only my gear but my gear fits the description of modern "vintage". Hornings use Lowther drivers as the midrange, which date from the 1920s. The cabinet is a TQWT invented by Paul Voigt. The tweeter is a paper cone in the similar vein to the vintage JBL cone but with modernized driver design (Nd magnet for example). The Sigma MAAT (especially the version with the white paper cone) is using a vintage style mid cone driver and high sensitivity.

 

[bonzo75]

the WE15 might well be the least interesting of 12, 13 and 16....

In 2014, Cheung at Munich had 12a for the upper half, and 13a for the lower half, in each channel.

16a are often combined with woofers they just don't go low enough. They have a very nice midrange for strings and guitar, their metal resonance helps in that regard.

 

[morricab]

Ok, false reporting, given your lack of experience with these.



Ah I see, agenda based reporting that finally comes down to your gear.

What do you mean false? Do you have the experience to judge...I think not.

 

[bonzo75]

. The Sigma MAAT (especially the version with the white paper cone) is using a vintage style mid cone driver and high sensitivity.

So you read my Sigma MAAT report, and heard their lower model at Munich, then googled Sigma MAAT. Ok.

 

[bonzo75]

What do you mean false? Do you have the experience to judge...I think not.

You mean the one Altec you heard somewhere by walking into a random room in France?

 

[morricab]

With JBL if you mentioned their modern drivers, or GPA Altecs, or today's Tannoy, I would agree. But TAD 4003 is the old driver, not new version of today's driver. The JBL Leif uses is the 2220a.

Sorry, the TAD 4003 is a modern compression driver, it even uses Be as a diaphragm material does it not? It has been optimized based on decades of work on compression drivers. Just because it has been out of production for a few years doesn't make it "vintage"

 

[morricab]

You mean the one Altec you heard somewhere by walking into a random room in France?

no need to comment on your ignorance , Ked...it is on full display today.

 

[morricab]

So you read my Sigma MAAT report, and heard their lower model at Munich, then googled Sigma MAAT. Ok.

It was hardly a lower model...it was just below the MAAT and used the same drivers and cabinet concept. Relatively representative.