Reality is Cruel : Cybershaft new Ultimate OCXO 10M Clocks Shootout OP20 vs OP17

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,126
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Hong Kong
#21
Yes, Thomas is very lucky to get that "near-OP21" Limited2 OP20.

He is a very dedicated audiophile in HK and good friend of mine.
I shall home-visit him after his Limited2 has fully burned-in.
:D
 
Jan 8, 2014
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#22
I am currently on Antelope. So, one of these will trounce the Antelope ?
 

TLi

Member
May 27, 2016
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#23
I am currently on Antelope. So, one of these will trounce the Antelope ?
I used Antelope 10MX on my dCS Vivaldi system for two years before changing to Cybershaft OP20. OP20 is clearly way better than Antelope 10MX.

Actually I bought a Cybershaft OP13 before. I did a detailed comparison between 10MX and OP13. 10MX is a little better in my system. I can said 10MX is similar to OP15/16. OP20 is a lot better, as CKKeung said it is like day and night.
 
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May 30, 2010
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Portugal
#24
I used Antelope 10MX on my dCS Vivaldi system for two years before changing to Cybershaft OP20. OP20 is clearly way better than Antelope 10MX.

Actually I bought a Cybershaft OP13 before. I did a detailed comparison between 10MX and OP13. 10MX is a little better in my system. I can said 10MX is similar to OP15/16. OP20 is a lot better, as CKKeung said it is like day and night.
Did you compare it with the Mutec REF10 https://mutec-net.com/product_ref_10.php ?
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
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Hong Kong
#25
Yes, another friend of mine did a shootout.

He owned Cybershaft OP13 then replaced it with Mutec Ref10 bcos the latter was obviously better.

He then got the new Cybershaft Limited2 OP20 and compared the two of them.
OP20 won easily in sonic performance.
His Ref 10 was sold easily as it is afterall a good clock at its price.
 
Feb 8, 2015
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#26
I think the best 10Mhz reference you're going to get (without an atomic clock and a physicist to run it for you) is from a global positioning system disciplined oscillator. I've attached a picture of mine, which I use as a reference source for my function generators and frequency counters. I'm sorry if the pictures are a little blurry.
 

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#27
Great setup!
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
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Hong Kong
#28
I think the best 10Mhz reference you're going to get (without an atomic clock and a physicist to run it for you) is from a global positioning system disciplined oscillator. I've attached a picture of mine, which I use as a reference source for my function generators and frequency counters. I'm sorry if the pictures are a little blurry.
Hello audioguy1958,
WoW! You must be a professional!

Other than the Cybershaft OP20 Ultimate and Limited2, the other best audiophile clock I have encountered is the CH Precision T1.
It also has an ocxo internally but also has a GPS clock section.
Eager to compare it to Cybershafts but there is very few T1 owners in Hong Kong because it's so expensive.
 
May 30, 2010
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#29
I think the best 10Mhz reference you're going to get (without an atomic clock and a physicist to run it for you) is from a global positioning system disciplined oscillator. I've attached a picture of mine, which I use as a reference source for my function generators and frequency counters. I'm sorry if the pictures are a little blurry.
What is the purpose of absolute accuracy in this task? Do you think that a GPS or atomic clock disciplined oscillator has lower phase noise than alternative designs?
 
Feb 8, 2015
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#30
I'm a software engineer, electronics and audio systems are my hobby. However, I was reading this thread and I wondered why people weren't using (including myself I must admit) a GPSDO as the ultimate clock reference. I've had my DAC upgraded years ago with a very good clock, and I've been wondering about using a GPDSO as an external reference.
 
Feb 8, 2015
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#31
What is the purpose of absolute accuracy in this task? Do you think that a GPS or atomic clock disciplined oscillator has lower phase noise than alternative designs?
Would a GPSDO used as an external reference to an OCXO reduce phase noise? I think it would, you would also limit the gate time so that there would be less fluctuation. But then I'm talking about test equipment.

Regardless, an OCXO would need to establish a stable temperature (running for about 24 hours to get best performance) before it reaches maximum stability.
 
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May 30, 2010
15,076
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Portugal
#32
Would a GPSDO used as an external reference to an OCXO reduce phase noise? I think it would, you would also limit the gate time so that there would be less fluctuation. But then I'm talking about test equipment.

Regardless, an OCXO would need to establish a stable temperature (running for about 24 hours to get best performance) before it reaches maximum stability.
My question is that I do not see "maximum stability" or "accuracy" as something relevant to audio. The main parameter - although not proved - seems to be phase noise. And very few manufacturers publish data on it.

Accuracy has been mainly used for the "numbers war" - both in analog and digital marketing.
 
Feb 8, 2015
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#34
My question is that I do not see "maximum stability" or "accuracy" as something relevant to audio. The main parameter - although not proved - seems to be phase noise. And very few manufacturers publish data on it.

Accuracy has been mainly used for the "numbers war" - both in analog and digital marketing.
Now that you ask that, its an interesting question I'll look into.
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,126
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63
Hong Kong
#35
Would a GPSDO used as an external reference to an OCXO reduce phase noise? I think it would, you would also limit the gate time so that there would be less fluctuation. But then I'm talking about test equipment.

Regardless, an OCXO would need to establish a stable temperature (running for about 24 hours to get best performance) before it reaches maximum stability.
Yes, a GPSD clock is theoretically very very good, but implementation/execution is even more important.

Some audiophiles in Hong Kong have been using cheap GPSPD bought from Mainland China for their digital frontends for a number of years.

But I can tell you that even a Cybershaft OP13 or a Mutec Ref10 can KO them in seconds!
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,126
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Hong Kong
#37
Really? As you say, it must be the implementation.
I am on my way to office/work.
Will share with you info/photos of those Mainland China GPSD clocks with you later.
:)
 

TLi

Member
May 27, 2016
88
79
18
#39
I bought a cheap GPSDO 10MHz clock from China. It locks to GPS signal to enhance its performance. This little device enhanced the sound of my dCS Vivaldi combo. Several of my friends bought it as well and were very happy with it. For a very small amount of money, it brought very noticeable improvement, a good bargain indeed.

Later on I bought Antelope 10MX and Cybershaft OP13 to compare with GPSDO. Both Antelope and Cybershaft were better.

Now I have the Cybershaft OP20 which is a lot better than anything I have before. I don't know if it is the accuracy or phase noise that make the difference, but it is clearly there. So my ranking list is OP20> Antelope 10MX> OP13> IMAG0265.jpg IMAG0441.jpg IMAG1207.jpg GPSDO.
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
1,126
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Hong Kong
#40
Thanks Thomas!

Thomas is one of the most feverish audiophiles in HK and a good frd of mine.
 
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