Social Media and High End Audio

[picears]

Is it your intention that the four categories above compose the universe of possibilities?

Those four categories contain what I've come across as the majority of "audio" Youtube channels that are not established manufacturers or retailers. As I noted there are other Youtube channels that are clearly the primary advertising outlets for commercial concerns: Trinnov, PS Audio, SVS, etc. all have their own channels, as do several dealers.

Most of the time I spend watching Youtube is not watching audiophile channels. I've spent enough time consuming Youtube videos (as I don't care to watch typical TV) to notice some trends in how people are trying to run what we'll call a Youtube-business. That anyone can now be a broadcaster of sorts has opened up a great many cottage genres on Youtube, with all the video makers wanting to get some of that sweet Youtube lucre.

And that latter is what many audiophile channels strike me as their goals. Between those and the channels which are underpaid Amazon marketers, so much of the "audiophile" content on Youtube is just marketing fluff.

If yes, in which category do you consider my videos (Masters & Makers interviews, audio show reports, What's Hot on What's Best updates) to fit?

I've never seen your videos (???? - you might try making some, actually! I bet you could do a good channel but from what people tell me it is a lot of work.)

 

[Robert Young]

5-6 times??!!

my fees are typically around 12% of construction cost, and i need to pay all my consultants (structural, MEP, acoustics, lighting, etc) from that amount. My profit - if i make one at all - is typically around 10% of the 12% of construction cost fee. So yes, i’m a designer and not a businessman!

I don’t have an issue with the prices, unless as i had potentially misinterpreted ‘nothing has advanced.’ I think things have advanced tremendously. Sadly i just can’t afford that advancement. But i am actually happy with my modest system. And it actually fits in a New York City apartment!

 

[Lagonda]

Robert,

I love your architectural work. Really cool projects.

In my opinion, both electronics and speakers have advanced greatly in the last 50 years, and also in the last five. Pricing is fair imho as well. As an example, Magico speakers sell at 5-6 times Bill of Materials cost. That’s a reasonable margin. Like in any luxury business, an ‘ultra luxury customer segment’ has emerged.

We can cry at $750,000 loudspeakers but it serves two great functions. 1. It generates significan profits which ptotect against recessions. And 2. It creates trickle down technology which makes better sound available for more people.

If Wilson or Magico or Rockport build a $2 million speaker next, it will be a very good thing for many people.

Personally i hope all manufacturers pumping up prices will fail miserably and go bankrupt ! Start with a clean slate get rid of all the costly middlemen and advertising and sell the products at prices more realistic ! This is not rocket science or medical patents they are developing, humanity will survive without Wilson or Magico !

 

[PeterA]

5-6 times??!!

my fees are typically around 12% of construction cost, and i need to pay all my consultants (structural, MEP, acoustics, lighting, etc) from that amount. My profit - if i make one at all - is typically around 10% of the 12% of construction cost fee. So yes, i’m a designer and not a businessman!

I don’t have an issue with the prices, unless as i had potentially misinterpreted ‘nothing has advanced.’ I think things have advanced tremendously. Sadly i just can’t afford that advancement. But i am actually happy with my modest system. And it actually fits in a New York City apartment!

Robert, I was not aware that you are an architect. I used to be an architect, started in New York, got my license in New York, and practiced in various places but then was laid off and I started my own business doing something different.
I first heard that often used expression in reference to Frank Loyd Wright. It went something like this:

“If you want to make money as an architect, either inherit it or marry it.” It’s a wonderful profession which can combine the best of creativity and problem-solving. Tadao Ando was my teacher for one semester at Columbia, he told me stories through a translator in my apartment and then I visited him at his office in Osaka when I was working in Tokyo. I have fond memories of being involved in that profession.

 

[andromedaaudio]

We can cry at $750,000 loudspeakers but it serves two great functions. 1. It generates significan profits which ptotect against recessions. And 2. It creates trickle down technology which makes better sound available for more people.

If Wilson or Magico or Rockport build a $2 million speaker next, it will be a very good thing for many people.

I dont cry at 750.000 $$ speakers , i just dont see them as a good investment / value
If i buy a mc laren 765 LT i have a good chance it has appreciated in a couple years time plus i have a great car .

If the big high dollar " mk 2 " speaker designs of the companies you mentioned were really that good and that much of an advancement you d think seasoned audiophiles like Mike , Steve Lloyd microstrip etc would have jumped on them by now , but they havent

 

[Lee]

5-6 times??!!

my fees are typically around 12% of construction cost, and i need to pay all my consultants (structural, MEP, acoustics, lighting, etc) from that amount. My profit - if i make one at all - is typically around 10% of the 12% of construction cost fee. So yes, i’m a designer and not a businessman!

I don’t have an issue with the prices, unless as i had potentially misinterpreted ‘nothing has advanced.’ I think things have advanced tremendously. Sadly i just can’t afford that advancement. But i am actually happy with my modest system. And it actually fits in a New York City apartment!

Well let's be fair here, you are in a profession that is a service. Manufacturing of products is quite different. 5 X BOM is totally reasonable by anyone's definition. It's up to you at which price level makes sense financially and/or as a lover of good sound.

 

[Lee]

I dont cry at 750.000 $$ speakers , i just dont see them as a good investment .
If i buy a mc laren 765 LT i have a good chance it has appreciated in a couple years time plus i have a great car .

If the big high dollar " mk 2 " speaker designs of the companies you mentioned were really that good and that much of an advancement you d think seasoned audiophiles like Mike , Steve Lloyd microstrip etc would have jumped on them by now , but they havent

Good investment is a whole different topic but I will note that the more established brands command higher (often much higher) prices in the used markets.

As for what speaker choices members here made, I can only speak to Wilson which I know a bit more about...they have sold many hundreds of WAMM, XVX, and Alexx speakers over the past few years so there seems to be a large customer base that is very happy with these advances products. When I visited Magico in September, they were very busy and a large number of M9 cabinets were on the floor.

 

[Lee]

Personally i hope all manufacturers pumping up prices will fail miserably and go bankrupt ! Start with a clean slate get rid of all the costly middlemen and advertising and sell the products at prices more realistic ! This is not rocket science or medical patents they are developing, humanity will survive without Wilson or Magico !

It kind of is rocket science in that there are many patents and, for one example, use of aerospace materials and technology in the cabinets and drivers. Wilson, Magico, and Borreson all could point to examples.

 

[Robert Young]

Robert, I was not aware that you are an architect. I used to be an architect, started in New York, got my license in New York, and practiced in various places but then was laid off and I started my own business doing something different.
I first heard that often used expression in reference to Frank Loyd Wright. It went something like this:

“If you want to make money as an architect, either inherit it or marry it.” It’s a wonderful profession which can combine the best of creativity and problem-solving. Tadao Ando was my teacher for one semester at Columbia, he told me stories through a translator in my apartment and then I visited him at his office in Osaka when I was working in Tokyo. I have fond memories of being involved in that profession.

Good story! When did you get your degree? I ask because i know now you are in the Boston area: i’m from Belmont, but after grad school in New Haven i started an office in NYC with my hero and thesis advisor Bernard Tschumi. He took over the Deanship at Columbia that first year of our office (1988). After a bit of burn-out from 7-days a week and 18 hours a day over 8 years, i went to work for Jim Polshek, the previous dean of Columbia, and was his right hand for 15 years.

i often dream of doing something else, but i’m afraid it’s all i’m good at. And i’m getting way too close to retirement, where i expect to spend my remaining days messing around with MM and MI vintage cartridges….

 

[Robert Young]

Well let's be fair here, you are in a profession that is a service. Manufacturing of products is quite different. 5 X BOM is totally reasonable by anyone's definition. It's up to you at which price level makes sense financially and/or as a lover of good sound.

This is why i’m running a restored TD 124, a restored and modded Revox B77, an old Air Tight preamp, a Din Grber/Nori Komuro collaboration that started as a Dynaco ST-70 i got dumpster-diving in the East Village, and s pair of JC Morrison Pipe Dreams i made myself. It’s a fun system that didn’t cost much and provides endless pleasure to me and my family. Until my wife finds out i just bought Bill Evans’ Waltz for Debby from the Tape Project the second the new batch became available. She would absolutely demolish me for spending thst kind of money on a recording i already have multiple versions of on vinyl…

if only i’d invented the Chia Pet like PeterA.

 

[microstrip]

Personally i hope all manufacturers pumping up prices will fail miserably and go bankrupt ! Start with a clean slate get rid of all the costly middlemen and advertising and sell the products at prices more realistic ! This is not rocket science or medical patents they are developing, humanity will survive without Wilson or Magico !

Yes, humanity can survive without high-end - I fail to see your point.

 

[Lagonda]

Yes, humanity can survive without high-end - I fail to see your point.

No humanity will not survive without high-end, but we will be fine without Wilson and Magico !

 

[tima]

No humanity will not survive without high-end, but we will be fine without Wilson and Magico !

Selectively flinging snot at major brands may lead to unexpected results. Wilson is a leading example of excellent customer service.

 

[microstrip]

Selectively flinging snot at major brands may lead to unexpected results. Wilson is a leading example of excellent customer service.

And of exceptional sound quality, surely subject to personal preferences. I recently listened to the new Alexia V and was impressed.

 

[Lagonda]

Selectively flinging snot at major brands may lead to unexpected results. Wilson is a leading example of excellent customer service.

I was responding directly to a advertising representative proclaiming the great impact the next 2 million dollar speaker from Wilson or Magico will have on the high end business ! If someone got a little dribble on their nicely pressed shirt, so be it !

Robert,

I love your architectural work. Really cool projects.

In my opinion, both electronics and speakers have advanced greatly in the last 50 years, and also in the last five. Pricing is fair imho as well. As an example, Magico speakers sell at 5-6 times Bill of Materials cost. That’s a reasonable margin. Like in any luxury business, an ‘ultra luxury customer segment’ has emerged.

We can cry at $750,000 loudspeakers but it serves two great functions. 1. It generates significan profits which ptotect against recessions. And 2. It creates trickle down technology which makes better sound available for more people.

If Wilson or Magico or Rockport build a $2 million speaker next, it will be a very good thing for many people.

 

[tima]

Dribble dribble

I have no problem if someone wants to make a 2 million dollar pair of speakers. Those would be as easy to goggle askance at as the one million dollar pair. If 2 gens later million dollar speaker features find their way into hundred thousand dollar or forty thousand dollar speakers that might be a positive. Might be. I'm pretty much laissez faire about it all.

 

[Ron Resnick]

i just bought Bill Evans’ Waltz for Debby from the Tape Project the second the new batch became available.

Everyone knows this is a wise financial investment for your family's future.

 

[andromedaaudio]

It kind of is rocket science in that there are many patents and, for one example, use of aerospace materials and technology in the cabinets and drivers. Wilson, Magico, and Borreson all could point to examples.

NASA/ Aerospace is nothing .
I had an alien in a flying saucer pick up my speakers .
He did his thing with them at Area 51 and brought them back , they sound amazing afterwards .

@ Lee When push comes to shove its all still just a voice coil moving in a magnet gap with a membrane attached to it.
Not rocket science and with certain limitations as to what is achievable

 

[Verastarr]

If Magico and Wilson make a $2M speaker, its my sign to bail from this industry as the incessant greed of the broken Human Race will have infiltrated my happy place.. Maybe I should make 24K solid Gold speaker cables, sell them for $500K and flip my middle finger to society while I ride my flaming chariot to Hell..
The latest pricing of the "Ultra" high end displays contempt for the buyer IMHO. The buyer does not care however as its an Ego trip. The manufacturers actually design FOR the Ego trippers at this level.... its no longer about the MUSIC... It sickens me.. Boulder and D'Agostino are prime examples of this ....IN MY OPINION ONLY.
When was the last time you heard of any of these "So great" companies having a charity event as they scarf down the millions of dollars ??
Well, we are having one tonight near AXPONA that benefits the battered Womens shelter.. and we are the LITTLE guys...
Lets listen to big ole special Magico and Wilson at AXPONA and see what we get .... same old "HiFi" over embellished, die cut, ideal representation of music punching you in the face, or actual natural music..
Ill post my vids of the show...

 

[Audire]

Karma already makes a 1.5 million dollar speaker. The Enigma Veyron … pretty little thing. Of course there is yet more expensive ones like the Hart Audio D&W Aural Pleasure at 5 mil.

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