After seeing Jeff's speakers today with remanufactured JBL 2235H 15" woofers I would be curious to learn what Peter at PBN Audio can make in the way of a subwoofer with three of those JBL drivers per side.
Subs for big horns?
- Thread starter Thetiminator
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Ron, you’ve heard Jeffrey’s custom PBN M!25s, off his new Lamms, w some tasty tape playback.
He’s seriously recommending them to me as a horns alternative to my Zus, in addition to the more traditional, conventional choices I’m gradually considering.
What were your thoughts on Jeffrey’s sound w these PBNs?
He’s seriously recommending them to me as a horns alternative to my Zus, in addition to the more traditional, conventional choices I’m gradually considering.
What were your thoughts on Jeffrey’s sound w these PBNs?
The thing is Brad, these are not proper basshorns.
Neither are the TOTL Basshorns from AG.
They’re just woofers, in a small cabinet with a TON of digital EQ.
I know someone who popped his head right inside one of the 3 Basshorns stacked vertically w the Trios, and alongside the lack of anything pertaining to a proper back loaded Basshorn, they hadn’t even painted the inside of the cabinet.
At the prices AG are charging, together with the, shall we say, “inexpensiveness” of materials used, the lack of rigidity of frame in the Trios, no way would AG get €120k+ from me even if I had it.
No, the sweet spot for AG is the Duos IMHO.
€120k, I’d rather spend on Pnoes horns, or the AC Symphonias.
Neither are the TOTL Basshorns from AG.
They’re just woofers, in a small cabinet with a TON of digital EQ.
I know someone who popped his head right inside one of the 3 Basshorns stacked vertically w the Trios, and alongside the lack of anything pertaining to a proper back loaded Basshorn, they hadn’t even painted the inside of the cabinet.
At the prices AG are charging, together with the, shall we say, “inexpensiveness” of materials used, the lack of rigidity of frame in the Trios, no way would AG get €120k+ from me even if I had it.
No, the sweet spot for AG is the Duos IMHO.
€120k, I’d rather spend on Pnoes horns, or the AC Symphonias.
Well, I am pretty sure the large bass horns from AG are frontloaded folded horns...kind of like Klipschorn bass but more snail like and less angular. The Short horn is probably a hybrid of some kind because it is clearly not long enough to support deep bass.
I have heard the Trio with basshorn sound quite good actually but I would also opt for the Symphonia
.Have you ever heard that arrangement 835guy - you would think it would only be OK at very low frequency
Cheers
Phil
Hi Phil,
Variations on a theme, yes, but not those ones in the link specifically.
Related to the topic at hand (i.e. what subs for big horns) my experience is limited to a bunch of DIY efforts in which the variables were too great to offer much in the way of data points, except to say that I think the slot-loaded concept, OB and W-horn bass designs all displayed greater potential over transmission line, ported, and Oaken-style boxes. In my experience - and by that I mean, my finite and heavily biased experience - the latter designs were all too slow to keep up with the main horns, trading speed for extension, at least in the systems I heard them in at the time.
Would a slot-loaded arrangement "be OK at very low frequencies"? I don't have enough experience with them to say, and anyway, it would depend how low we're talking about and at what efficiency.
I can say that I think the slot-loaded concept is very interesting, but in order to avoid comb-filtering and achieve a smooth transition with the main horns, you're still going to be dealing with some serious surface area for wings, which is of course, the downside of an OB arrangement too. There's no free lunch, right?
Best,
853guy
Hmm.
I run a set of Classic Audio Loudspeakers, which employ dual TAD 15" woofers, a 500Hz horn with a field coil powered beryllium diaphragm and a compression style tweeter that rolls in about 12KHz. Its 98 db, 16 ohms- easy to drive with a tube amp. I like 60 to 100 watts- in my room its impossible to safely clip the amps without earplugs. No need for a sub- they go to 20Hz and everything is integrated nicely. The horns are very fast, nuanced, smooth and without artifact; people often comment that they sound like ESLs that have dynamic punch.
Might that be a solution? They are large but not crazy person stuff
I run a set of Classic Audio Loudspeakers, which employ dual TAD 15" woofers, a 500Hz horn with a field coil powered beryllium diaphragm and a compression style tweeter that rolls in about 12KHz. Its 98 db, 16 ohms- easy to drive with a tube amp. I like 60 to 100 watts- in my room its impossible to safely clip the amps without earplugs. No need for a sub- they go to 20Hz and everything is integrated nicely. The horns are very fast, nuanced, smooth and without artifact; people often comment that they sound like ESLs that have dynamic punch.
Might that be a solution? They are large but not crazy person stuff
Very interesting, Ralph. Thank you for telling us about your loudspeakers!
(This sounds like another speaker our SpiritofMusic should check out.)
Do you consider yourself to have a musical preference, Ralph? Do you listen predominately to one type of music rather than another?
(This sounds like another speaker our SpiritofMusic should check out.)
Do you consider yourself to have a musical preference, Ralph? Do you listen predominately to one type of music rather than another?
Hmm.
I run a set of Classic Audio Loudspeakers, which employ dual TAD 15" woofers, a 500Hz horn with a field coil powered beryllium diaphragm and a compression style tweeter that rolls in about 12KHz. Its 98 db, 16 ohms- easy to drive with a tube amp. I like 60 to 100 watts- in my room its impossible to safely clip the amps without earplugs. No need for a sub- they go to 20Hz and everything is integrated nicely. The horns are very fast, nuanced, smooth and without artifact; people often comment that they sound like ESLs that have dynamic punch.
Might that be a solution? They are large but not crazy person stuff
Classic Audio + Atmosphere is consistently one of my favorite sounds at any audio show.
Since Classic Audio specializes in TAD, I will probably have them build my passive crossovers for my 3 way horn modules.
I have a really wide range of taste- classical, medieval, rock from the 60s to now, electronia, ethnic folk... So I need/have a speaker that is nuanced, lacking coloration, completely full range and has no worries at high sound pressure levels.
T-3.3s customized with slightly taller cabinets (so they cut off at 20Hz rather than 22Hz...). My room width was not allowing the T-1s (which have an 18" down firing woofer in tandem with the 15" forward firing unit).
Its not quite correct to say they specialize in TAD; that's the woofer type you are going to get if you get the Alnico magnet woofers instead of the field coil woofers. I've usually recommend the TADs in the past because up until recently, the field coil woofers (while noticeably faster), didn't have the same excursion, and the stuff I play can be pretty demanding in that regard. I understand though that CAL now has a new motor that works with the TAD voice coils, so I might have to change mine out! The field coils really are an improvement over permanent magnets!
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