Surely. But I am still curious about your views on how your current digital compares with your vinyl of one year ago or even of ten years ago ...
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Surely. But I am still curious about your views on how your current digital compares with your vinyl of one year ago or even of ten years ago ...
Interesting, I always thought dacs were supposed to left on 24/7 and if you did turn off, to reboot asap. I'll try giving the Aqua a nap.
Deep, Bob. It's only a hobby Lol.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I totally agree. Every digital format that is played by TAS is so good that for me the format has become inconsequential as everything sounds so good, I really don't care
i will think about that and try to do justice to it when i can. respectfully; maybe not on this thread.
Thanks. Respectfully, I think that it would be an interesting contribution to this particular thread as it would be a truthful data point on current TAS performance.
ok. i will do my best to keep it relevant.
A quick update that will hopefully be helpful to some who are having problems with the TAS beta and HQP...
To begin, I want to express my appreciation once again to the Taiko team who went above and beyond to develop a TAS to HQP interface for the benefit of a minority of Extreme owners and without any assistance from HQP's creator, Jussi Laako, they did an excellent job. However, as HQP has evolved, stability problems have developed that according to Emile, now account for a large proportion of their service calls and so this is unfortunate. TAS and XD player were developed to give Taiko full autonomy from 3rd parties like Roon. Ideally, this should include HQP also. Having some insight into XD player's planned evolution, there is reason to be hopeful that HQP will no longer be necessary for those of us who are benefiting from it presently.
Until then, here are some findings that hopefully will make your experience with TAS and HQP more trouble-free:
First of all, if you are using a tweaked version of HQP, that tweak needs to be removed if you wish to use TAS without problems. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you have nothing to worry about but this is not something I will discuss publicly. If you insist on using this tweak, then you should plan to use HQP standalone and not with TAS. As the first to implement this tweak, you should know that I have fully abandoned it as I have found a far superior solution but that is a topic for a different thread.
Second, if you are using Roon + HQP on your Extreme and are having stability issues, my suggestion is don't bother. Roon's SQ is just so bad compared to TAS, imho, that HQP isn't enough to salvage it and the instability issues aren't worth it.
Third, there are certain versions of HQP that do not play well with TAS, especially if you are using HQP + NAA. I can verify that the latest version of HQP, 4.10.0, works well and is the best sounding "stable" version of HQP when used with NAA. I have been using 4.10.0 for the past 7 days and have had zero issues. Some older versions like 4.6 work well, too, but they don't sound as good. 4.9.0 is the very best sounding version of HQP but it is very prickly especially when used with TAS and so if you insist on using this version, don't bother contacting Taiko for support. They can't help you. This is an HQP/NAA issue.
Lastly, if you are using HQP/NAA presently, you will want to see if it still sounds better than XD player in your system. With all of the DACs that Team Taiko has at their disposal, they have XD sounding better than HQP/NAA and so the advantages of HQP/NAA apply only to certain DACs and this advantage is getting smaller by the week. With my modified Chord DAVE, I still have HQP/NAA sounding a bit better but I think the path to surpassing HQP/NAA is now clear and I believe it's a matter of time.
To begin, I want to express my appreciation once again to the Taiko team who went above and beyond to develop a TAS to HQP interface for the benefit of a minority of Extreme owners and without any assistance from HQP's creator, Jussi Laako, they did an excellent job. However, as HQP has evolved, stability problems have developed that according to Emile, now account for a large proportion of their service calls and so this is unfortunate. TAS and XD player were developed to give Taiko full autonomy from 3rd parties like Roon. Ideally, this should include HQP also. Having some insight into XD player's planned evolution, there is reason to be hopeful that HQP will no longer be necessary for those of us who are benefiting from it presently.
Until then, here are some findings that hopefully will make your experience with TAS and HQP more trouble-free:
First of all, if you are using a tweaked version of HQP, that tweak needs to be removed if you wish to use TAS without problems. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you have nothing to worry about but this is not something I will discuss publicly. If you insist on using this tweak, then you should plan to use HQP standalone and not with TAS. As the first to implement this tweak, you should know that I have fully abandoned it as I have found a far superior solution but that is a topic for a different thread.
Second, if you are using Roon + HQP on your Extreme and are having stability issues, my suggestion is don't bother. Roon's SQ is just so bad compared to TAS, imho, that HQP isn't enough to salvage it and the instability issues aren't worth it.
Third, there are certain versions of HQP that do not play well with TAS, especially if you are using HQP + NAA. I can verify that the latest version of HQP, 4.10.0, works well and is the best sounding "stable" version of HQP when used with NAA. I have been using 4.10.0 for the past 7 days and have had zero issues. Some older versions like 4.6 work well, too, but they don't sound as good. 4.9.0 is the very best sounding version of HQP but it is very prickly especially when used with TAS and so if you insist on using this version, don't bother contacting Taiko for support. They can't help you. This is an HQP/NAA issue.
Lastly, if you are using HQP/NAA presently, you will want to see if it still sounds better than XD player in your system. With all of the DACs that Team Taiko has at their disposal, they have XD sounding better than HQP/NAA and so the advantages of HQP/NAA apply only to certain DACs and this advantage is getting smaller by the week. With my modified Chord DAVE, I still have HQP/NAA sounding a bit better but I think the path to surpassing HQP/NAA is now clear and I believe it's a matter of time.
TAS BETA Update:
It's been 4 weeks since we started rolling out the BETA with just over 100 participants on which we've received very useful feedback.
What we are working on right now for the next BETA release:
-Support for Unicode and Oriental characters which fixes missing library albums, already operational but we need to develop an automatic implementation.
-Consolidate all settings pages into a single page including entering your Qobuz credentials and Tidal if possible.
-Interface polishing.
-The "gapless" or "batch" player has been deemed to sound on par with the serial player, we will now move that to the next stage by removing the small gaps in between tracks, this will then again have to be evaluated for impact on sonics.
-We will add a player supporting pause and seek functionality, this will again have to be evaluated for impact on sonics.
-A whole bunch of sound quality improvements, including further improved resilience against network "quality".
What we are working on for later releases:
-A full replacement of LMS as some of it's features are limiting library, browsing functionality, look and feel
-This will also allow integrated Qobuz/Tidal/and other streaming services support including their music discovery services
-Metadata provider integration to provide metadata beyond what is stored in your files as ID3 tags.
-Luxury brand new browsing interface
-Up and down sample support with a focus on maximum sound quality, not only from a sample rate / filter quality perspective, but also from a process flow perspective
Our USB driver DAC support status is as follows:
Currently supported:
-Aries Cerat
-Aqua Formula xHD V2.0
-Bricasti MDxx
-DCS Vivaldi
-DCS Vivaldi Up-sampler
-DCS Vivaldi One
-Ideon Absolute
-Lampizator (with jlsounds interface)
-LH Davinci MKII
-MSB Pro USB
-Pilium Elektra
-Thrax Maximinus
-Totaldac
-Trinity Reference
-Vitus
-Ypsilon 1000
Pending:
-CH Precision
-T+A HV 3100 series
If you would like to have your DAC added please contact us.
Some information related to 3rd party software support:
-As @romaz described above, we cannot support a range of different HQPlayer versions. We have limited to no control over the mechanism by which HQPlayer loads files for playback. To avoid an excessive load on our support team hampering general TAS development we are limiting our support to HQPlayer version 4.60 in a default configuration.
-The Roon 1.8 update is generally considered to sound better then Roon 1.7. There is a temporal initial period directly following the update where you can notice reduced performance due to an initial high utilization of network and disk resources. This can span from minutes to hours.
-We have added some functionality to our USB driver which is now active while using Roon for improved performance. Just to be clear TAS does not mean a reduction in efforts to extract as much sound quality from Roon as we can. We are working on a few updates to further improve Roon performance along side discoveries made while developing TAS, these will not be subtle.
It's been 4 weeks since we started rolling out the BETA with just over 100 participants on which we've received very useful feedback.
What we are working on right now for the next BETA release:
-Support for Unicode and Oriental characters which fixes missing library albums, already operational but we need to develop an automatic implementation.
-Consolidate all settings pages into a single page including entering your Qobuz credentials and Tidal if possible.
-Interface polishing.
-The "gapless" or "batch" player has been deemed to sound on par with the serial player, we will now move that to the next stage by removing the small gaps in between tracks, this will then again have to be evaluated for impact on sonics.
-We will add a player supporting pause and seek functionality, this will again have to be evaluated for impact on sonics.
-A whole bunch of sound quality improvements, including further improved resilience against network "quality".
What we are working on for later releases:
-A full replacement of LMS as some of it's features are limiting library, browsing functionality, look and feel
-This will also allow integrated Qobuz/Tidal/and other streaming services support including their music discovery services
-Metadata provider integration to provide metadata beyond what is stored in your files as ID3 tags.
-Luxury brand new browsing interface
-Up and down sample support with a focus on maximum sound quality, not only from a sample rate / filter quality perspective, but also from a process flow perspective
Our USB driver DAC support status is as follows:
Currently supported:
-Aries Cerat
-Aqua Formula xHD V2.0
-Bricasti MDxx
-DCS Vivaldi
-DCS Vivaldi Up-sampler
-DCS Vivaldi One
-Ideon Absolute
-Lampizator (with jlsounds interface)
-LH Davinci MKII
-MSB Pro USB
-Pilium Elektra
-Thrax Maximinus
-Totaldac
-Trinity Reference
-Vitus
-Ypsilon 1000
Pending:
-CH Precision
-T+A HV 3100 series
If you would like to have your DAC added please contact us.
Some information related to 3rd party software support:
-As @romaz described above, we cannot support a range of different HQPlayer versions. We have limited to no control over the mechanism by which HQPlayer loads files for playback. To avoid an excessive load on our support team hampering general TAS development we are limiting our support to HQPlayer version 4.60 in a default configuration.
-The Roon 1.8 update is generally considered to sound better then Roon 1.7. There is a temporal initial period directly following the update where you can notice reduced performance due to an initial high utilization of network and disk resources. This can span from minutes to hours.
-We have added some functionality to our USB driver which is now active while using Roon for improved performance. Just to be clear TAS does not mean a reduction in efforts to extract as much sound quality from Roon as we can. We are working on a few updates to further improve Roon performance along side discoveries made while developing TAS, these will not be subtle.
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What are you all doing in your spare time?
Amazing!!!!
We have rationed sleepingWhat are you all doing in your spare time?
I have owned and do currently own some wonderful audio components but I have never had this level of excitement regarding what a component is delivering and what is promises to bring. I'm so grateful to be a passenger on the Taiko Train!
Thanks Emile. The up/down sampling function is very important for me. I have to resample everything to 2496. With that implement in TAS, I do not need HQPlayer anymore. Looking forward to that.
this morning Emile got into my network and did some tweaks, not exactly sure what. no time to listen then. got home and been listening the last 90 minutes. i was warned it was not a major step, but some improvements.
i got more musically significant textures everywhere (everywhere!!!!), which are objectively quite subtle, but on my 25-30 reference tracks i've so far sampled i'd liken it to a model upgrade + a new cable. kinda. more sparkle on the sparkle. more a sense of expressiveness in mouth movements, absolutely zero added artifacts, just the opposite (the detail added never is any kind of digital grain added posing as detail, it's more grainless). like the door opened, then the wall was removed around the door, then another wall.......with a door. that door opened and that wall removed.
i did the 'Anna' test. track #11 on the 24/88 version of Sempre Libera. where she duals it out with the glass harmonica. this go around laid waste to my previous reference. (note that the CD or SACD are not the best versions (with a bit perfect dac); it's an 88/24 native recording.....play it at live volume if you dare). great music even for the marginal soprano aria fan. this rocks.
https://hdmusic.me/anna-netrebko-sempre-libera-2004-2-0-5-1-ps3-iso-flac/
overall everything is just more like music. in the context of my early week delights, that was a more real presentation, but not so much more information. this is more information.
thank you to Emile and the team for all this awesome-ness. it's is an honor to be part of this.
so far just TAS Beta with files playing in serial mode. not checked out Roon 1.8 at all yet. have some vinyl upgrades i have here i need to dive into, so Roon and the rest will have to wait. i deserve credit for getting to the TAS first? right?
tomorrow night i will be talking about my new listening system. an answer to a challenge from some Extreme users.
i got more musically significant textures everywhere (everywhere!!!!), which are objectively quite subtle, but on my 25-30 reference tracks i've so far sampled i'd liken it to a model upgrade + a new cable. kinda. more sparkle on the sparkle. more a sense of expressiveness in mouth movements, absolutely zero added artifacts, just the opposite (the detail added never is any kind of digital grain added posing as detail, it's more grainless). like the door opened, then the wall was removed around the door, then another wall.......with a door. that door opened and that wall removed.
i did the 'Anna' test. track #11 on the 24/88 version of Sempre Libera. where she duals it out with the glass harmonica. this go around laid waste to my previous reference. (note that the CD or SACD are not the best versions (with a bit perfect dac); it's an 88/24 native recording.....play it at live volume if you dare). great music even for the marginal soprano aria fan. this rocks.
https://hdmusic.me/anna-netrebko-sempre-libera-2004-2-0-5-1-ps3-iso-flac/
overall everything is just more like music. in the context of my early week delights, that was a more real presentation, but not so much more information. this is more information.
thank you to Emile and the team for all this awesome-ness. it's is an honor to be part of this.
so far just TAS Beta with files playing in serial mode. not checked out Roon 1.8 at all yet. have some vinyl upgrades i have here i need to dive into, so Roon and the rest will have to wait. i deserve credit for getting to the TAS first?
right? tomorrow night i will be talking about my new listening system. an answer to a challenge from some Extreme users.
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omg, that sounds fantastic and curious about the tweaks within the TAS beta. were you already using the TAS driver? wish we could hear the Anna test comparisons you refer to in your system. Excited to listen to that download and the duel w the glass harmonica.
Emile/team is/are like wizards. Network gate unlocked here, always welcome to remove any walls, doors, windows, demons. I have lost track of the walls and doors.
edit: just listened to the track, whoa. that is a system check. particularly as you said at live volume
Emile/team is/are like wizards. Network gate unlocked here, always welcome to remove any walls, doors, windows, demons. I have lost track of the walls and doors.
edit: just listened to the track, whoa. that is a system check. particularly as you said at live volume
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bet it sounds great on your system. it does make for an easily audible idea of performance changes for clarity.
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Mike not only beat me to the punch, he nailed it too.
Emile had asked me for a TeamViewer session yesterday to ensure I had the latest Taiko USB driver enhancements and though initially I was outside with our dog when he started, I couldn’t have missed much because when I sat back down at my laptop I observed him uninstalling the Taiko USB driver I had been using and replaced it with the latest driver iteration.
The only hint he would give was that things might be a little more incisive. I suppose that would be one way to describe it, but I like Mike L’s phrase, “more sparkle on the sparkle”, since incisive can have negative connotations too, and I certainly haven’t heard anything at all negative with thIs latest USB driver. Quite the opposite — I’m hearing a step increase in overall clarity, with a bit more dynamic snap and realism. As Mike so astutely noted, this increased clarity and resolution, the bit quicker rise time for transients, the musically relevant detail is not an artifact of added grain or a slight high frequency emphasis. Rather, the overall impression for me is of ‘relaxed clarity’, if that makes sense. It’s wonderful to listen to and really fosters deep, emotionally involved listening.
Evidently, there is no shortage of sonic rabbits for Emile to pull out of his Taiko Extreme hat — things just keep getting better and better.
Steve Z
@ Mike Lavigne and @ Old Mustang, your description of “a more like music ...relaxed clarity” exactly describes what I’m hearing as well.
So Emile, is the latest version of the Taiko USB driver the same for all DACs (where the only difference involves perhaps toggling a parameter for different DACs)? Or is each Taiko USB driver fundamentally different for each DAC?
By the way, lots of folks in Texas, me included, have been without power for long periods of time since Sunday evening. Can’t wait to be able to turn on my system again soon and be able to experience the relaxed clarity after the anticipated bump from the extended period the system has been off..
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