Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Zeotrope]

I would try to avoid discharging the capacitors. If you turn off via the rear main power switch, you will discharge the caps, at least partially; and that can take time (hours or days) for them to return to steady state.

I can't speak to audio quality differences before or after a restart; but I think the easiest way to reboot is from your iPad via VNC.

I suspect Windows will not behave well after long periods of time without a reboot -- just my experience with Windows PCs (and one reason why the Extreme is the only exception I made to a No Windows policy in my life!)

 

[Nils]

I would try to avoid discharging the capacitors. If you turn off via the rear main power switch, you will discharge the caps, at least partially; and that can take time (hours or days) for them to return to steady state.

I can't speak to audio quality differences before or after a restart; but I think the easiest way to reboot is from your iPad via VNC.

I suspect Windows will not behave well after long periods of time without a reboot -- just my experience with Windows PCs (and one reason why the Extreme is the only exception I made to a No Windows policy in my life!)

I am aware - but trust my ears.

I don't let the Extreme sit with power-off more than a couple of minutes.

Just doing a soft-restart does not have same effect.

I am with you on the No Windows-policy - but since Extreme is an appliance with ultra-precise usage of Windows OS and controlled deployment of all parts it passes... ;-)

 

[Zeotrope]

I am aware - but trust my ears.

I don't let the Extreme sit with power-off more than a couple of minutes.

Just doing a soft-restart does not have same effect.

I am with you on the No Windows-policy - but since Extreme is an appliance with ultra-precise usage of Windows OS and controlled deployment of all parts it passes... ;-)

Yes, we should always trust our ears!

 

[steve williams]

I can't speak to audio quality differences before or after a restart; but I think the easiest way to reboot is from your iPad via VNC.

does the restart button on the Taiko app serve the same function

 

[RUIN*ish]

Will there be a restart and shut down option via XDMS?
Marc

 

[dminches]

does the restart button on the Taiko app serve the same function

Yes

 

[steve williams]

I guess I must be the only outlier as I never routinely restart my Extreme unless there is an issue necessitating such and these issues rarely ever occur in my system

I would like to ask for a reply form the taiko team as to the necessity of doing such and further if, it is recommended, how does it achieve better sound quality. Someone just suggested static electricity but I would love to hear this from the horse's mouth. Emile is away but if Ed, or Christian read this I would like to hear from them if it is recommended and what it actually achieves when we restart the Extreme

As an aside I too would never turn off the rear mains switch unless absolutely necessary

 

[Taiko Audio]

There is indeed a system wide "accumulation" effect over time which can sometimes be observed. Grounding tweaks do address, or rather affect this. It has nothing to do with the Extreme but it tends to "accumulate" on the largest mass component. I am not sure what causes this. I have had it in our system in Hengelo which back then consisted of the Totaldac D1-12mk2 and Audionet Stern/Heisenbergs. I never had to power cycle the Extreme which I could leave running for months at a time but the Totaldac and Audionet gear started to become less transparent sounding after around 5 days, as it was our office system I just powered everything except the Extreme off on Friday evening and powered it back on Monday morning.

A reboot does force a disconnect of the USB and network ports, unplugging / replugging these probably has a similar / if not the same effect. Some builds from Roon suffered from memory leaks and memory usage would increase over time, but Roon tends to fix these when they come across them.

I do not recommend powering off the Extreme regularly using the rear power switch, here it takes between 3 and 5 days to return to full Sound Quality. A soft reboot has slightly reduced sound quality for up to 20 minutes, largely determined by your Roon Database size.

 

[steve williams]

So a soft restart every how often

 

[steve williams]

Does the restart button on the app achieve the same as a double tap on the front button

 

[Taiko Audio]

So a soft restart every how often

I actually almost never do, I suspect it's unnecessary due to the very simple network setup, unshielded network cabling and turning off the Lampizator every night. But otherwise I'd say once a week.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Does the restart button on the app achieve the same as a double tap on the front button

Yes.

 

[steve williams]

I actually almost never do, I suspect it's unnecessary due to the very simple network setup and turning off the Lampizator every night. But otherwise I'd say once a week.

Me also. I rarely if ever restart the Extreme and I never turn off the rear main switch

I must do a restart today to decide if there is any uptick in SQ

 

[Taiko Audio]

This "accumulation" X-files type of effect also happens to metallic racks. It even happens if you place your equipment on a copper plate. If you ground that copper plate the sound starts to change noticeably after 5 or so days until you disconnect ground. The "Setchi" grounding devices we used to make in the past address this, being battery based they did not require to be disconnected, the "improvement" in sound quality spanned several days to reach their full effect. I do actually not know exactly what causes this hence my referral to the X-files

A battery powered Extreme does not suffer from these accumulation effects either, food for thought!

 

[Sablon Audio]

Just replaced the IEC cable connector that plugs into the Extreme. I had been using a Furutech FI-C15 NCF since I got the Extreme around two years ago. Changed to an Oyiade C-004 IEC which was designed to match the IEC inlet that is on the Extreme (same manufacturer, same plating).

The Extreme is on its own dedicated circuit using a Gigawatt circuit breaker and twelve feet of Gigawatt wire terminated with the IEC connector plugged directly into the Extreme (no outlet or separate power cable).

The Extreme was powered down for a little over half an hour while I replaced the connector. I powered it back on and continued playing the same track that I was playing before the swap.

I expected to have to struggle to hear if there was any difference at all in sound. Instead, I was totally blown away by how much better the Extreme sounds with the Oyaide IEC. Not subtle at all. Better, more articulate bass, better dynamics, more details and totally natural sounding. This is even before the Extreme has restabilized after being turned off. Just amazing what I have been missing for the past two years!

The Oyaide C-004 IEC connector works wonders here! It seems to follow the voicing that Taiko did when they picked that Oyiade IEC inlet for the Extreme. Very synergistic.

This is consistent with my own experience; the denser Oyaide 004 tonality works more synergistically with Extreme than the relatively skeletal NCF.

Bocchino’s silver plated iec however combines the best of both worlds, giving NCF transparency with 004 density, and remains my default recommendation within my power cord options for fellow Extreme users.

 

[Cyrus]

I do reboot every week.
This is specifically important after the roon update happens.
Please try to listen just after the roon update for a few hours and than reboot and listen again .
It is night and day difference.

@Kris and others: What are the reasons behind this outcome/result? Thanks.

Just got caught up on the responses that followed Kris' post. Feel free to ignore the question since Emile has addressed it.

Like @Steve Williams I do not power-off reboot, nor soft reset. My DAC/Pre are powered off.

 

[ctydwn]

Thanks Emile for the explanations/confirmations. I know some were questioning my mental state a few pages ago after my prior post...
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-802897

On a topic that has been written about every 100-200 pages on this thread, re: benefits of occasionally restarting the Extreme (and other gear?)....

I had 5 hours of uninterrupted listening time tonight.
I figure I have had my system running constantly for the last ~6 weeks including the aforementioned 6 days straight of streaming.

I listened to the same set of ~10 songs for the first 2 hours tonight (streaming through TAS or off the Extreme directly). Sounded just fine, but felt a bit flat and recessed. Then, I recollected the rec that has been sprinkled throughout on this thread to try restarting the Extreme occasionally (restarting = front button on Extreme or through TAS app; not switch on back of Extreme).

I let 3-4 songs play (as Emile has recommended for the Extreme to resettle), I also switched my dac, pre and amps to standby and back on for kickers.

And, for the final 2 hours I have been immersed and captivated. Dynamics and presence back in my room. I have no clue what is happening (perhaps my cache was too large and impacting performance? no idea). But, I am headed back to listen and re-reconfirm what I am hearing. One caveat, is my power improving over the course of the night?

Seems random, but, at least for TAS and my current system, I might try this every few days, to refresh. Will be curious whether XDMS might behave differently (again, not even knowing whether this is related to the Extreme and/or TAS directly). Thanks for listening to my neurosis.

QUICK UPDATE (24 hours later): Listening at the same time, to the same songs, with the same pint glass that I initially spoke of. I am now glued back in to my seat whereas I was not before the reset last night. Some may question my mental state , but will trust my ears and will try this practice once a week to soft restart my Extreme.

 

[steve williams]

I do actually not know exactly what causes this hence my referral to the X-files

Speaking of "X" files the only ones on my radar are XDMS .

 

[aLLeARS]

Could some of the improvement be due to rebooting the extreme? I think it has been mentioned somewhere on this thread that rebooting regularly is best for sq?

Usually, it takes some time for the SQ to come back after turning off the Extreme. Especially after removing power by turning off the switch on the back.
This time the Extreme sounded better instantly after being turned back on. It was the first time I have experienced that.
It sounds even better today!

 

[steve williams]

Usually, it takes some time for the SQ to come back after turning off the Extreme. Especially after removing power by turning off the switch on the back.
This time the Extreme sounded better instantly after being turned back on. It was the first time I have experienced that.
It sounds even better today!

Live and learn I guess