Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Blackmorec]

If my house caught on fire, once I made sure my wife, dog and cats were out safely, the next thing I'd be clutching in my arms would be my Taiko Extreme. That being said, I do think forums and audiophiles in general, tend to over-hype everything.

Reminds me of one of my previous bosses who only taught his wife to drive his stick-shift 911 backwards because “what if my house catches fire”

 

[Blackmorec]

Hey dear Extreme users,
How about creating a playlist to celebrate the release of XDMS. Each of you could submit a couple of songs that you would highly recommend other users listen to with the new SW.
The songs should meet a few criterea
1. Great music
2. Special attributes….should demonstrate some special attributes like, PR&T, Imaging and spacial, rhythm, immersion, acoustic elements and effects, venue revelation, atmosphere, feelings and emotions (musical messages), naturalness, intimacy, Interesting recording style, balance or atmosphere, you get the idea.
3. They dont have to be ‘perfect’ recordings, as long as the music + attributes far outway the shortcomings and the recording creates joy for the listener.
4. They should be recordings that you think will enhance the SW launch

So what do you think?
We could start a new thread if you want to avoid diluting the tech content of this thread?

 

[oldmustang]

Great idea! I'm up for it, either here or on a new thread.

It's going to be hard to winnow it down to just one or two. . .

Steve Z

 

[cat6man]

another thing to do while waiting for xdms.

please download the 2 files below, listen to them played back locally on your extreme,
and (please) report back here if you can or cannot hear a difference between the WAV and FLAC
versions of the track in your system.

with my DAC directly into a T2(by george)/Stax009 setup, the difference is obvious here.

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

 

[steve williams]

I like the idea of music from members but for my $0.02 I vote to keep it out of this tech heavy existing thread. Not sure if I'm the only one or others agree

 

[dminches]

I like the idea of music from members but for my $0.02 I vote to keep it out of this tech heavy existing thread. Not sure if I'm the only one or others agree

I agree.

 

[cat6man]

I like the idea of music from members but for my $0.02 I vote to keep it out of this tech heavy existing thread. Not sure if I'm the only one or others agree

I agree, it should be in a separate thread.

Note that the tracks I linked to above are NOT related to that music sharing topic, but a request to compare WAV vs. FLAC in different Extreme based systems.

 

[oldmustang]

I like the idea of music from members but for my $0.02 I vote to keep it out of this tech heavy existing thread. Not sure if I'm the only one or others agree

No worries. I'll delete my post from here and wait for an XDMS music thread to be started.

Done!

Steve Z

 

[steve williams]

No worries. I'll delete my post from here and wait for an XDMS music thread to be started.

Done!

Steve Z

Copy it before you delete it and then you can paste it to the new thread

 

[oldmustang]

I decided I could start the new XDMS music thread myself. Never done it before, but as Hannibal Lecter said, "It's always good to try new things."

Music While Waiting For Godot (AKA XDMS):

Music While Waiting For Godot (aka XDMS)

Moving this nascent thread from the Taiko Extreme forum to here. Music that will show off Taiko's new XDMS music player when it is released into the wild. Suggested by @Blackmorec and a damn good idea it is! My two to get the ball rolling: Play loud. Enjoy! Steve Z

www.whatsbestforum.com

Have fun, play nice!

Steve Z

 

[matthias]

another thing to do while waiting for xdms.

please download the 2 files below, listen to them played back locally on your extreme,
and (please) report back here if you can or cannot hear a difference between the WAV and FLAC
versions of the track in your system.

with my DAC directly into a T2(by george)/Stax009 setup, the difference is obvious here.

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

Dropbox - File Deleted - Simplify your life

www.dropbox.com

Thanks for sharing,
even on a lesser device than the Extreme I prefer WAV

Matt

 

[Christiaan Punter]

interesting result.

i created a queue with 3 versions of the same track, Brokedown Palace on Henry Kaiser's Infinity Blue album, CD quality on all versions, local WAV, local FLAC(level 5) and Qobuz streamed FLAC (unknown level).

the local and streamed FLAC were very close in SQ with a small advantage to the local file.
however, the local WAV file wins hands down, as discussed above, so i conclude that WAV vs. FLAC is not transparent in my system (and never has been).
i had seen this consistently with many other streaming and playback configurations in the past, and i guess the delta in SQ is still there. fyi: previous results were with streaming WAV vs. streaming FLAC, both on NAS but not local on the streamers.

what say you all?

are there any qobuz files that are not lossless compressed that I could compare with WAV?

as Warren Zevon sang:

on the road to perfection
.....
i appreciate the best
but i''m settling for less
and I'm looking for the next best thing

("looking for the next best thing")

I totally second these test results. I was about to write a post to be careful to compare the EXACT same versions locally and streaming but you have already done the test in the same way that I did (purchasing albums in FLAC and WAV from Qobuz and comparing the same tracks local and streaming). Indeed, I also hear a slight advantage for local files, and a big difference between WAV and FLAC, either streaming or playing locally. A friend of mine actually really likes FLAC, either streaming or played locally, precisely because it sounds more fluid to him. To me, however, it sounds more rounded than it should. In my opinion, streaming via Qobuz is good enough not to worry about but when you really love an album, it's best to get the CD and rip it or buy the WAVs via Qobuz.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Thanks for sharing,
even on a lesser device than the Extreme I prefer WAV

Matt

Me too. I always hear the same differences between FLAC and WAV no matter the server brand or model. With some tracks, however, the differences can be vanishingly small, sometimes inaudibly small.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Not sure I agree. My Extreme is top shelf sitting on Center Stage feet and on a CMS platform. There are no vibrations whatsoever. I have complete isolation and am vibration free. The Extreme IMO is a masterpiece and belongs on the top shelf for all to see. It’s too beautiful to hide on the bottom IMO

While a lower rack could indeed sound better (or at least different) than a taller rack, all things being equal and using the upper level in both cases, I agree that you can't state that lower levels are better than higher levels by definition. According to my practical experience, there does not seem to be a single hard rule for this. It totally depends on the type and rigidity of the support. For instance, Artesanis Exoteryc racks are by design actually more wobbly (and sound less tight and articulate) on the lower levels than on the top levels. Racks comprised of modular segments are different again, especially those that couple via spikes on lower levels. With three levels up, you have coupled the upper level three times via spikes, which also has a marked influence.

 

[John T]

Future resting place for the Extreme when it arrives next week. This technique is the same as making concrete counter tops. I build the form, pour the concrete, and then seal. The concrete takes on a cool patina. Pretty labor intensive. My component shelving is half the thickness, that sit on custom brackets that are lagged into a 6" thick log wall. For the platforms I have adhered 3/4" cork sheets to the bottoms. The Mephisto sits on a larger platform approx. 250lbs. Taiko platform weighs approx. 200lbs. In addition I use Isoacoustics which is most likely overkill? You can literally jump up and down on the shelves without any movement. Granted this would not work in all decor's, for this type home it works. I showed it to Emile and his reaction was Whoa!!

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Future resting place for the Extreme when it arrives next week. This technique is the same as making concrete counter tops. I build the form, pour the concrete, and then seal. The concrete takes on a cool patina. Pretty labor intensive. My component shelving is half the thickness, that sit on custom brackets that are lagged into a 6" thick log wall. For the platforms I have adhered 3/4" cork sheets to the bottoms. The Mephisto sits on a larger platform approx. 250lbs. Taiko platform weighs approx. 200lbs. In addition I use Isoacoustics which is most likely overkill? You can literally jump up and down on the shelves without any movement. Granted this would not work in all decor's, for this type home it works. I showed it to Emile and his reaction was Whoa!!

Nice, I like the slab's solid and purposeful look!

I wouldn't say that any footers are overkill even with a very heavy platform and very heavy server, you simply always hear the contribution. However, you may want to experiment with IsoAcoustics footers versus hard coupling. You may prefer one or the other but I'll bet that you can still hear a difference!

 

[Cyrus]

I've chosen to place my Extreme on the floor. It's size results in it being out of scale, aesthetically, relative to my other components when on higher levels of the audio rack. Another factor that makes on floor placement a positive is keeping the lit (white) rectangle out of my sight line.

 

[matthias]

Indeed, I also hear a slight advantage for local files, and a big difference between WAV and FLAC, either streaming or playing locally.

So the conclusion might be as long as streaming services are using FLAC (or MQA) they will never be able to deliver the same (or better) quality as the best local files.

Matt

 

[steve williams]

I've chosen to place my Extreme on the floor. It's size results in it being out of scale, aesthetically, relative to my other components when on higher levels of the audio rack. Another factor that makes on floor placement a positive is keeping the lit (white) rectangle out of my sight line.

It's interesting the reasons why people make different selections. My rack is massively heavy and has all of the components Christiaan says to be necessary. I wouldn't have my Extreme anywhere but where it can be seen by all. The little white light has no affect on me whatsoever

 

[allvinyl]

I can't speak for anyone else John -- in my experience the Taiko Extreme and a good DAC make the choice more about the provenance of the format being played than digital vs. analog.

Which is to say that I don't listen to a digital selection and automatically say to myself, "I wish I had an LP or a tape of this, it would be so much better". Really good digital sounds great and in fact there are now just as many examples in my so-called music library where digital is the preferred format over vinyl, as the reverse.

When I think now of the selection of truly top tier sound quality recordings I have access to there are just as many digital as analog, and surprisingly, almost as many CD rips or 16/44.1 downloads as there are higher resolution digital recordings. And streamed music is so close or equal to locally stored digital as to be a total non-issue. The care and attention taken to every phase of the recording chain, be it analog or digital really, really matters.

I would not have been able to say any of the above (except the bit about recording and mastering) prior to having the Taiko Extreme in my system.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not selling my turntable and my record collection. There are still too many examples of indifferently transferred digital music, just one example being progressive rock from the 60s and 70s where something like a pink Island or swirl Vertigo or green label Chrysalis still sounds much better in their original (analog) format. That genre and a lot of early rock just hasn't been well served by the labels in their rush to pump out product as cheaply as possible. To that end, I bought a good ADC to do my own transfers from vinyl to digital -- but that's a topic for another thread!

Steve Z

Thanks to each for your responses to my post.

Steve - your detailed reply gets to many of the individual sub plots that crossed my mind resulting in my original question.

Since I'm just now contemplating a server, DAC, and ADC my head is reeling from the myriad of choices. Where to start? My experiences are limited but because of exposure to a Wolf server and Bricasti M1 SE DAC I can appreciate the possibilities beyond my standalone Vitus CD spinner.

But again, where to start?

As far as servers go, will XDMS conquer ROON, TIDAL and the like? Seems there is a lot of momentum building here for XDMS.