...super, I’ll be on the lookout for the 1/2” software update on my Extreme. I’ll call it Extreme 0.5”...
Cheers!
ALF
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Cheers!
ALF
...super, I’ll be on the lookout for the 1/2” software update on my Extreme. I’ll call it Extreme 0.5”...
Cheers!
ALF
It might takes us a couple of years, but challenges are what makes life interesting
There are already Digital Audio Workstation plugins that use DSP to make digital recorded tracks sound as if they were tape recordings, but at the SQ performance level we are used to in high end, it is pretty difficult to loose the digitally processed sound signature of plugins and the like
Why is it such a big deal to try and make great digital sound like great vinyl or tape? A few years back Mike, I thought that was maybe how you were going and what might be possible. But I realise this is a pointless endeavour, and indeed totally distracts from what is great about the optimal state of each medium.
Digital and analog are just...different. And indeed, the better digital becomes the more enjoyable and immersive it becomes, and the differences are as palpable as ever.
So, in my experience of Blue58's system, going from Audio Aero La Fontaine cdp, to SGM/T&A Dac8, to SGM/Aqua Formula XHD, to the same w new analog boards, now to the same w Daizas under all components, has totally shifted his digital into a realm I can only dream about re my own digital, but it sounds as different from great analog as his other front ends have. What it does do, is absolutely maximise what is exemplary about great digital. But analog remains it's own world of enjoyment, and SGM/Aqua is not going there.
My analogy is that digital and analog are running different races. Maybe converging in some isolated ways, but mainly in parallel, and not really crossing over or coalescing.
A great time for digital heads. But no impact on analog.
Digital and analog are just...different. And indeed, the better digital becomes the more enjoyable and immersive it becomes, and the differences are as palpable as ever.
So, in my experience of Blue58's system, going from Audio Aero La Fontaine cdp, to SGM/T&A Dac8, to SGM/Aqua Formula XHD, to the same w new analog boards, now to the same w Daizas under all components, has totally shifted his digital into a realm I can only dream about re my own digital, but it sounds as different from great analog as his other front ends have. What it does do, is absolutely maximise what is exemplary about great digital. But analog remains it's own world of enjoyment, and SGM/Aqua is not going there.
My analogy is that digital and analog are running different races. Maybe converging in some isolated ways, but mainly in parallel, and not really crossing over or coalescing.
A great time for digital heads. But no impact on analog.
it's very simple. it's how the music can make you feel. it's not an objective thing.
and when your reference gets shattered on the musical connection side of things it does cause a reaction.
before we listened to the Kurt Elling 1/2" tape, we listened to a Ben Webster 'live' performance 1/4" 15ips. the guys were watching the 'peak level' readout on the big darts and it hit over 200 watt peaks on Webster's horn. the power of that horn was captured on the tape......in a way digital just can't do. the data density is just something else.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I look at it as if it is apples and oranges. I just want the best Apple and the best orange
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Just landed. Hoping we can make it to Rhapsody on Thursday
I don’t see a technical limitation for digital, however there has to be a demand for this before there will be supply. We’re willing to initiate/fund a trial, but are people even interested? For vinyl / tape it seems you have to really put in an effort to find the right “untouched” source media. We have played a lot of albums but none of those pulled ahead like Mike’s tape cuts did. And even then, most systems would probably not even be able to render the full dynamic range.
There’s this though, a nice initiative:
High Definition Tape Transfers
That was a customer with the black shoes that visited yesterday playing one of his tracks via Qobuz
That was a customer with the black shoes that visited yesterday playing one of his tracks via Qobuz
He has good taste, took a photo of his playlist:
Hi Steve,
I am at the gate at JFK to fly to Germany. I still have Copland playing gloriously in my brain 30 hours after our mega session yesterday
Enjoy, and we look forward to your Rhapsody report
Safe travels
Ed
Thanks Emile and Bob...Had a blast yesterday!!!
IMHO the only proper conclusive test would be introducing a top analog-digital-analog loop between the output of the tape preamplifier and the preamplfier and listening for its effect. Unfortunately I doubt that it will ever be carried in your system.
Some studios still keep 1/4" and 1/2" tape machines to pass their digital through analog tape loops - professionals at gearslutz.com refer to it, considering it superior to DAW pluggins.
BTW, the difference between 1/2" and 1/4" is also due to the different elastic modulus of the wider tape, not just to the better dynamics due to the double width of the magnetic gap - 1/2" has lower scrape flutter for equal paths.
i have a number of 'grey market' tapes which seem to be 'open mic' type tapes from jazz clubs.
a couple of these are of a group headed by Ben Webster, in Europe, in 1965. it includes Kenny Drew on piano, Niels Peterson on bass, and Alex Riel on drums. this tape is awesome. i have not heard the Lp to compare. i've had this tape for 10 years.
the Lp is from Black Lions Records,
https://www.discogs.com/Ben-Webster-Sunday-Morning-At-The-Montmartre/release/3218025
and; "Gone With The Wind'. a reissue was done in 2016. here is a link to that record on Discogs.
https://www.discogs.com/Ben-Webster-Gone-With-The-Wind/release/9412002
as a result of your question; i've just found and purchased the Black Lions original from Germany, and a reissue from here in the US. when i receive them i will share my perceptions verses the tape.
Last edited:
Interesting. I find Aries Cerat digital very unlike any other digital I have heard. It is hard to describe, but long hours into the morning listening tells me something. I almost gave up on RedBook or any other formats, and glad I didn't.
Listening to the Abyss TC out of the Genus SET, oh my, does it get any better?
It’s all good, we’re on a source format / mastering comparison level now.
Those cuts Mike describes above have incredible dynamic range. They are really only available on tape or vinyl without digital compression applied.
Obviously there is a very limited market for those, which is a shame, but if we found a way to create sufficient demand, we may be able to have these as digital downloads. These could be even better in theory, but we will have to see if that is going to hold up.
They would still not be for everyone as you will need significant headroom, and gain in your system to render this at all. This is where something like the Totaldac D1-Driver may provide a solution. And you don’t need a Totaldac DAC to use this, you can use it with any DAC.
We are going to investigate several options. I would like to have these in a digital format. If interested do try a few of the cuts on https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/
You can even hear the difference on your iphone just playing the samples.
