Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
Korean audiophile "Muscle Pain" sold Aurender W20SE 50 days after he ordered it.
And he decided to order SGM Extreme.
And he decided to order SGM Extreme.
4th visit to the National Audio Laboratory in Seattle North Bend
It was my 4th visit to Mike's in as many years, and as always, the SQ in Mike's place has taken another leap.
Since my last visit in March 2018, there are now Tana Active platforms under the Dart power amps, a Taiko Extreme Server, MSB Pro I2s and fibre optic networking. Emile and I have a lot of new data points to collate and contemplate. The additional 6,000 miles of travel to go to Mike's was worth every mile !
Emile and Ted were on this visit and they were wowed by the scale, ambiance and tonal richness of Mike's system. There is simply no substitute for the square inches of the MM7 driver arrays
Here are my Take Aways
Taiko Extreme
This was my first experience, but Emile's third sonic encounter of the Extreme with the MSB Select 2 (Emile's previous encounters being last week in Slovenia)
The surprise is that the tweaking the Extreme OS and process settings is even more audible with the MSB Select 2 than with the Total DAC D-1 12 Mk2. After about an hour of listening, using many of Emile's Movie Soundtrack test pieces, Emile redid some process allocation and OS settings and the result was jaw dropping. The effect was a bit like accurately manually tuning a fm radio station in the before the days of auto tuning.
Mike has a track with Anna Netrebko singing "Sempre Libera", accompanied by a glass harmonica. Last year the glass harmonica sounded mysterious and beguiling, yesterday you could tell it was absolutely made from glass !
The second take away is that with the optical networking hooked up to the Extreme, the SQ of Qobuz is simply stunning. Until now I have always been pretty disappointed with streaming SQ in the US compared to Netherlands, but now with the optical LAN the streaming SQ is superb. I guess the noise on router / modems with CAT 5/6 copper connections in the US has been significantly higher in the US than in Holland where there is a all fibre backbone but with the Startech optical LAN implementation, the LAN noise is way down and allows streaming to truly sing.
The third takeaway is Mike tells me that despite the MSB Pro I2S being in place, the sonic upgrade that the Goebel USB brought was huge. The takeaway is that you can have optical isolation, but the RF emissions still jump from unit to unit.
Tana Active Anti vibration under the Dart monoblocs
We were playing 1/2 inch 15 ips tapes and we decided to observe the active vibration compensation switched on and off. When we turned off the active control, the 3D soundstage collapsed. When we turned it back on, the 3D images coalesced in less than 2 seconds
Vinyl and Tape
We have spent the last 4 years trying to catch up with the SQ of vinyl and tape. On the digital side we make acclerating progress, but Mike's Vinyl and Tape SQ is not standing still !! The new Durand tone arm and the addition of the tape preamp has significantly raised the SQ bar again ! Mike keeps us running breathlessly to catch up, but the journey is exhilarating.
For sure I have missed some of yesterdays noteworthy moments, but Mike and Emile will chime in
Many Thanks to Mike for hosting 9 hours of listening on his system
It was my 4th visit to Mike's in as many years, and as always, the SQ in Mike's place has taken another leap.
Since my last visit in March 2018, there are now Tana Active platforms under the Dart power amps, a Taiko Extreme Server, MSB Pro I2s and fibre optic networking. Emile and I have a lot of new data points to collate and contemplate. The additional 6,000 miles of travel to go to Mike's was worth every mile !
Emile and Ted were on this visit and they were wowed by the scale, ambiance and tonal richness of Mike's system. There is simply no substitute for the square inches of the MM7 driver arrays
Here are my Take Aways
Taiko Extreme
This was my first experience, but Emile's third sonic encounter of the Extreme with the MSB Select 2 (Emile's previous encounters being last week in Slovenia)
The surprise is that the tweaking the Extreme OS and process settings is even more audible with the MSB Select 2 than with the Total DAC D-1 12 Mk2. After about an hour of listening, using many of Emile's Movie Soundtrack test pieces, Emile redid some process allocation and OS settings and the result was jaw dropping. The effect was a bit like accurately manually tuning a fm radio station in the before the days of auto tuning.
Mike has a track with Anna Netrebko singing "Sempre Libera", accompanied by a glass harmonica. Last year the glass harmonica sounded mysterious and beguiling, yesterday you could tell it was absolutely made from glass !
The second take away is that with the optical networking hooked up to the Extreme, the SQ of Qobuz is simply stunning. Until now I have always been pretty disappointed with streaming SQ in the US compared to Netherlands, but now with the optical LAN the streaming SQ is superb. I guess the noise on router / modems with CAT 5/6 copper connections in the US has been significantly higher in the US than in Holland where there is a all fibre backbone but with the Startech optical LAN implementation, the LAN noise is way down and allows streaming to truly sing.
The third takeaway is Mike tells me that despite the MSB Pro I2S being in place, the sonic upgrade that the Goebel USB brought was huge. The takeaway is that you can have optical isolation, but the RF emissions still jump from unit to unit.
Tana Active Anti vibration under the Dart monoblocs
We were playing 1/2 inch 15 ips tapes and we decided to observe the active vibration compensation switched on and off. When we turned off the active control, the 3D soundstage collapsed. When we turned it back on, the 3D images coalesced in less than 2 seconds
Vinyl and Tape
We have spent the last 4 years trying to catch up with the SQ of vinyl and tape. On the digital side we make acclerating progress, but Mike's Vinyl and Tape SQ is not standing still !! The new Durand tone arm and the addition of the tape preamp has significantly raised the SQ bar again ! Mike keeps us running breathlessly to catch up, but the journey is exhilarating.
For sure I have missed some of yesterdays noteworthy moments, but Mike and Emile will chime in
Many Thanks to Mike for hosting 9 hours of listening on his system
i was very lucky to be included in the Extreme North America Victory Tour. for months Emile had been working hard to catch up on the backlog of orders for the Extreme server, and finally found a window of time to pay us a visit. yesterday was my turn. Emile and Ted joined Ed here at my home for a day long visit. it was my great pleasure to finally meet Emile after we had been in such close communications for so long on many issues.
Ed covered it mostly, but one of the fun parts of the day for me was being deeply introduced to the music from film, which Emile uses extensively for his product development. i'm a big movie guy and the music sound tracks have always had a place in my listening. i'm also a 'big' music guy as in large scale, and movie music is classical orchestral on steroids. watching Emile step through his reference tracks on my system was eye opening and the dynamic range of those tracks gave my system a good workout. multiple times through our session Emile came back to certain tracks.
previously i had only heard most of the movie tracks in my home theater in my house. it has a an Anthem AVR 60 with 7.1.4 Revel Dolby Atmos speaker system that sounds pretty good. but nothing like what the big rig 2 channel does. the 'right' 2 channels smokes multi-channel.....no matter how many speakers......for music.
it was interesting seeing the reactions to my 2 turntables; they caused some quite strong preferences. and the grins and muttering after hearing the tape were priceless.
"how can we ever get digital to sound like 1/2" tape?" was said by someone.
how indeed?
Emile has recently built his own reference grade room, and said that his room and mine have a similar feel and sound. hearing his designs work so well in my system i guess that is not surprising. our reference target sound is likely closely aligned.
thank you Ed, for your support and for the kind words about my system. i suppose i can't help myself from keeping pushing the performance forward. hopefully not just pushing for change. it does help when i get a visitor who has been here before to give me some feedback.
Ted was mostly quiet and taking all the crazy excess in; but i think he did enjoy it and as he does much of the assembly i am in his debt for his wonderful work. he may be the most entrepreneurial of us after he described to me his side business at lunch.
i'm still in the afterglow of this visit. there is something so fine about the communal listening with like minded friends. Ed, Emile and Ted; many thanks for your efforts to visit me; and the great music and talks we shared.
Ed covered it mostly, but one of the fun parts of the day for me was being deeply introduced to the music from film, which Emile uses extensively for his product development. i'm a big movie guy and the music sound tracks have always had a place in my listening. i'm also a 'big' music guy as in large scale, and movie music is classical orchestral on steroids. watching Emile step through his reference tracks on my system was eye opening and the dynamic range of those tracks gave my system a good workout. multiple times through our session Emile came back to certain tracks.
previously i had only heard most of the movie tracks in my home theater in my house. it has a an Anthem AVR 60 with 7.1.4 Revel Dolby Atmos speaker system that sounds pretty good. but nothing like what the big rig 2 channel does. the 'right' 2 channels smokes multi-channel.....no matter how many speakers......for music.
it was interesting seeing the reactions to my 2 turntables; they caused some quite strong preferences. and the grins and muttering after hearing the tape were priceless.
"how can we ever get digital to sound like 1/2" tape?" was said by someone.
how indeed?
Emile has recently built his own reference grade room, and said that his room and mine have a similar feel and sound. hearing his designs work so well in my system i guess that is not surprising. our reference target sound is likely closely aligned.
thank you Ed, for your support and for the kind words about my system. i suppose i can't help myself from keeping pushing the performance forward. hopefully not just pushing for change. it does help when i get a visitor who has been here before to give me some feedback.
Ted was mostly quiet and taking all the crazy excess in; but i think he did enjoy it and as he does much of the assembly i am in his debt for his wonderful work. he may be the most entrepreneurial of us after he described to me his side business at lunch.
i'm still in the afterglow of this visit. there is something so fine about the communal listening with like minded friends. Ed, Emile and Ted; many thanks for your efforts to visit me; and the great music and talks we shared.
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Oh my God, as I envy all those who have a dedicated music room, both for the improvement of sound, and for being able to turn up the volume as much as they want, in orchestral music, without disturbing anyone.
2nd visit to Rhapsody Audio in NYC, SQ transformed !
I visited Bob in his showroom in March this year and was frankly underwhelmed by the sound. Great gear, but over crammed and sonically suffering in a Manhattan commercial space . . . .
However chatting with Bob and learning about his background, deep audio knowledge, and most importantly his passion for delivering an emotionally engaging musical experience to his customers, I recommended to Emile to seriously consider having Bob be a Taiko Audio dealer.
We all had dinner last night in the Indian Restaurant in his office building, not a drop of alcohol, and I asked to go up to his showroom to hear his system.
Taiko Extreme to Aqua Formula XHD (latest spec) > Pilium integrated amp to Diesis Roma horn and open baffle speakers. All electronics sitting on Daiza's.
The elevation and transformation of the sound in Bob's room left me speechless. Soundstaging, 3-D instrument and performer focus, tonality, scale, transparency were all good to great. Musical enjoyment delivered in spades. I have to honestly confess that I did not think top draw sonics would be possible in Bob's space, but boy was I wrong.
My experience has always been that good sonics is extremely fragile, it only takes a small negative factor or effect, and the soundstage collapses and the realism is gone. Last night showed how robust realistic sonics can be when you get RF noise and vibration management in the source and chain right. You can have an absolutely engaging, realistic and enjoyable musical experience despite challenged room acoustics.
I can now fully understand Bob's comments, that the streaming digital audio coming from the Extreme and the Formula XHD is so good, that he does not have to worry about it and just enjoy the music
A big thank you to Bob for partnering on Taiko's journey to deliver sonic realism to audiophiles and a big data point for me
I visited Bob in his showroom in March this year and was frankly underwhelmed by the sound. Great gear, but over crammed and sonically suffering in a Manhattan commercial space . . . .
However chatting with Bob and learning about his background, deep audio knowledge, and most importantly his passion for delivering an emotionally engaging musical experience to his customers, I recommended to Emile to seriously consider having Bob be a Taiko Audio dealer.
We all had dinner last night in the Indian Restaurant in his office building, not a drop of alcohol, and I asked to go up to his showroom to hear his system.
Taiko Extreme to Aqua Formula XHD (latest spec) > Pilium integrated amp to Diesis Roma horn and open baffle speakers. All electronics sitting on Daiza's.
The elevation and transformation of the sound in Bob's room left me speechless. Soundstaging, 3-D instrument and performer focus, tonality, scale, transparency were all good to great. Musical enjoyment delivered in spades. I have to honestly confess that I did not think top draw sonics would be possible in Bob's space, but boy was I wrong.
My experience has always been that good sonics is extremely fragile, it only takes a small negative factor or effect, and the soundstage collapses and the realism is gone. Last night showed how robust realistic sonics can be when you get RF noise and vibration management in the source and chain right. You can have an absolutely engaging, realistic and enjoyable musical experience despite challenged room acoustics.
I can now fully understand Bob's comments, that the streaming digital audio coming from the Extreme and the Formula XHD is so good, that he does not have to worry about it and just enjoy the music
A big thank you to Bob for partnering on Taiko's journey to deliver sonic realism to audiophiles and a big data point for me
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Good morning Ed,
All I would say is that I am deeply honored to be associated with you, Emile, Ted and the full Taiko audio team. It truly is an honor. Thank you!
Mike,
Can you let us know what movie soundtracks were played by Emile? I also love soundtracks and would like to add to my collection. Thanks.
steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
At my house Emile played a lot of Hans Zimmer Live in Prague as well as some John Williams
And the Anna Netrebko track and version would be great also...
it's track 11 from the Netrebko recording, Sempre Libera. from the opera 'Lucia di Lammermoor', "Ardon gli Incensi"
a 5 minute track particularly at about the 3:10 point where the interplay between the voice and glass harmonica is simply breathtaking. the purity and textural delicacy of that passage will easily separate the men from the boys.
for years i used the SACD disc of this. but then i acquired the source 88/24 file and heard how it really sounds. but even the redbook is effective for system investigation purposes. it's maybe my single most revealing track for easily identifying changes.
Attachments
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steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
here ya go......
https://www.hdtracks.com/anna-netrebko-sempre-libera
only $2.49 for the single track if you choose. and once you install the HD Tracks download app, it's very simple. OTOH Emile has not yet taught me how to install files onto my PCIe drives. likely easy just not gone there yet. so i have to be satisfied with the 17 tb's already there.
Chasing Vinyl at Rhapsody Audio
The sound of vinyl and tape at Mikes has been buzzing in our memories the last three days, so today at Bob’s I egged on Emile to try to see if the Extreme and Formula XHD combo could catch Bob’s Vyger and Air Force TechDAS 1 in sonics
The sound of vinyl and tape at Mikes has been buzzing in our memories the last three days, so today at Bob’s I egged on Emile to try to see if the Extreme and Formula XHD combo could catch Bob’s Vyger and Air Force TechDAS 1 in sonics
We used this great Reference Recordings LP and the Qobuz streaming version of the same to A/B test back and forth
Our clear and unanimous favorite was the sound coming from the Vyger, so that became the horse to catch.
Emile’s first move was to find some hard footers to go between the Formula and the Daiza which lifted the OEM squishy feet off the Daiza - a nice uptick in resolution and transparency resulted. Then serious A/B ing between the Vyger and Extreme, identifying the differences in the tonal balance between the digital and the analog.
After about 30 minutes Emile was ready to make some changes which he did by remote access into the Extreme.
We fired up the digital and wow it fully competitive with the sound from the Vyger. We were all floored
For a SQ check I queued up Anna Netrebko and the glass harmonica. It was absolutely glorious, but I could not tell the material was made of which I could at Mike’s
Bob is now ready to welcome all audiophiles to come and compare SOTA vinyl with SOTA streaming digital. For Bob’s vinyl to beat out the Extreme, I believe active anti vibration control would be needed to tighten up and clarify the base which would make the bass texture apparent.
What I did not expect was the mid range tonality of the Extreme / Aqua combo absolutely comparable to the Vyger with its passive vibration management
Emile’s first move was to find some hard footers to go between the Formula and the Daiza which lifted the OEM squishy feet off the Daiza - a nice uptick in resolution and transparency resulted. Then serious A/B ing between the Vyger and Extreme, identifying the differences in the tonal balance between the digital and the analog.
After about 30 minutes Emile was ready to make some changes which he did by remote access into the Extreme.
We fired up the digital and wow it fully competitive with the sound from the Vyger. We were all floored
For a SQ check I queued up Anna Netrebko and the glass harmonica. It was absolutely glorious, but I could not tell the material was made of which I could at Mike’s
Bob is now ready to welcome all audiophiles to come and compare SOTA vinyl with SOTA streaming digital. For Bob’s vinyl to beat out the Extreme, I believe active anti vibration control would be needed to tighten up and clarify the base which would make the bass texture apparent.
What I did not expect was the mid range tonality of the Extreme / Aqua combo absolutely comparable to the Vyger with its passive vibration management
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A must visit for Audiophiles in or visiting Manhattan
sorry Ed, but that Lp sort of sucks. it's digitally sourced. not a good vinyl <-> digital comparison. i actually prefer my CD to that Lp. and i do really like the music on this recording.
i've ranted before on this issue (Reference Recordings mastering their vinyl with digital even though they have tape masters....it should be a gross misdemeanor).......and the moderators even deleted my posts. talk about the deep state media!
btw; there are opportunities with Reference Recordings to compare digital and analog masters from the same mic feed. 'Arnold Overtures' is a RR title with CD and 176/24 from the digital master, and then the vinyl from the tape, and also a 15ips 1/4" Tape Project tape. i've done that one a few times, i'll let you guess which i clearly prefer.
sorry; but format comparisons is a huge deal to me. and when it's soiled by lazy Lp masterings it irks me to no end.
and this does not invalidate the superb digital performance in Bob's set-up; just the use of this Lp as evidence of that.
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