Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX First Impressions

I just spent over six hours today listening to my friend's new Wilson Audio Chronosonic XVX loudspeakers. Consistent with being blown away by the Master Chronosonic + Master Subsonic system at Maier Shadi's demo in Santa Monica, and consistent with a couple of reports by people who auditioned at Maier's both the Master Chronosonic and later the XVX and preferred the XVX, I am here to report officially that I think the XVX is now my favorite conventional cone driver speaker system. I think I prefer the XVX even to my longtime favorite dynamic driver loudspeaker, the mighty Rockport Arrakis.

Prior to the XVX, my friend had the Alexx. The height alone of the XVX over the Alexx affords the system the height and scale and grandeur I always notice and appreciate from very tall loudspeakers.

I don't know why the XVX is an order of magnitude better -- next level better -- than the Alexx. But I am certain that it is.

I think the XVX is the first dynamic driver speaker of which I was very aware that you can hear seemingly almost everything at fairly low listening volumes. It doesn't need to be played loudly to be heard comfortably.

In much the same way that people like to applaud their digital playback systems by saying "it sounds like analog," dynamic driver loudspeaker aficionados like to say their cone speakers have "electrostatic-like transparency." Believe me, if most dynamic driver speakers had "electrostatic-like transparency" we would not need electrostatic speakers.

As somebody who loves electrostatic speakers I have always been aware that speakers of other topologies are one or two steps less transparent than electrostatic speakers. I feel like the XVX truly has "electrostatic-like transparency" -- at least credibly so, and more so than any other cone speaker I've ever heard.

Just like I felt about the Master Chronosonic the XVX gives one the sense of unlimited dynamic capability. There is a limitlessness and an effortlessness to the sound that I do not hear from other box speakers. Other heroically inert box speakers sound tightly wrapped or button-downed by comparison -- like some portion of the sound is trapped in the box and having trouble freeing itself. The XVX sounds open somehow -- a sonic presentation I associate with planar speakers, not with big box speakers.

I know, I know, I know. I am thinking and saying the same things you are: these are meaningless statements as you can't compare loudspeakers in different systems from fault-prone memory; you will never be able to hear an XVX versus a Rockport Arrakis, or an XVX versus a VSA Ultra 11, in the same room with the same associated components at the same time, etc., etc. I know, and I agree with you.

All I am saying is that if you put a gun to my head and told me I had to buy a dynamic driver loudspeaker system for my personal system and cost was not a factor. . . I would say take the gun away from my head. Then I would tell you I will order XVX + Master Subsonics.

Without intending to be coy, I couch this is terms of "the XVX is the box speaker I would I buy if I had to buy a box speaker for myself" rather than "the XVX is the best box speaker I've ever heard," because I cannot hear the Von Schweikert Audio Ultra 11 and the Evolution Acoustics MM7 and the Rockport Arrakis and the YG XV in the same room in the same system as the XVX + Subsonics. So it just does not make any sense to declare, and it is analytically defective to declare, that the XVX is the best speaker I have ever heard.

My view that if I had to buy a box speaker I would buy the XVX + Subsonics is a combination of what I heard from the XVX, what I vaguely remember from hearing these other other speakers in other systems, and my slight prejudice against ceramic drivers which I would be worried I might find uncomfortable over a long period of time. (I would worry the same about beryllium drivers and about diamond encrusted drivers.)

I have owned only planar loudspeakers my entire life. I literally couldn't bear to listen to Wilson Audio speakers with metal dome tweeters. I have never been a big fan of Wilson Audio speakers in general. But I thought I heard magic from Maier's demo of the Master Chronosonic, and my experience today proves that that inkling was correct.

I don't know how or what Daryl Wilson did to achieve it, but I am reporting that to my ears the XVX is a very, very special speaker. It is a stunning achievement in dynamic driver loudspeaker design specifically, and in loudspeaker design in general.

PS: Assuming they physically fit in Michael Fremer's listening room, I have no doubt that Michael will upgrade his Alexx to XVX. He might go in not wanting to upgrade, but after hearing these there is no way he's going to be happy without the XVX.

Wilson-XVX.jpg
 
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Interesting! Question...not being a techie, I had always understood that max power to Class A output was usually around 4x-5x. So 650 watts max consumption would be around 150 watts or so Class A into 8ohms. And doubling into lower impedance does happen in Class A...but usually it is the opposite. Even as total output doubles into lower impedance, Class A output typically HALVES as it goes down into lower impedance. Again, no techie here, but that was always my understanding?

Would this amp really be able to keep driving to 400 watts pure Class A into 0.5 ohms? Wow...btw, which amp is this?

In the case of the Robert Kodas, there is a high bias switch so you can take it from standard 150 watts Class A into 8ohms into 230 Watts pure Class A into 4 ohms (the setting we use as advised by Robert Koda)...but that is because the High Bias switch is turned on. Even the Gryphon Mephisto I thought was 175 watts pure Class A into 8ohms and might maintain that into 4ohms, but did not think its Class A power output would continue to double (only its total output which does indeed continue to double all the way down to 2800 watts into 0.5 ohms and apparently burst of some 4,000 - 5000 watts at peaks). Again, no techie...thanks for any insight.
95 watt at 8 ohm
190 watt at 4 ohm
320 watt at 1 ohm...400 watt at 0.5 ohm
SAC the amplifer (nickname tombstones) one of the best sounding class a amps i know67347e.jpg67347.jpg
 
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Thanks! Wow...did a little reading on another SAC amp...sounds quite special!
it's an old amp 90th buy only refurbish amps. hard running amplifier really hot 90°degree heatsink. must not stand on carpet, granite or slab of slate underneath
 
There again, with all do respect ML, your problem was not the ML3s, it was your selection of preamplifier…your preamplifier selection simply strangled the Lammies…

vbw,
a
would the ML3's been different in my system in some ways subbing the Lamm pre? maybe. likely not much. the laws of physics still apply.

i would agree that the ML3's are optimal with a Lamm preamp....whatever that might be. and really i loved my time with the ML3's, they are wonderful.
 
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it's an old amp 90th buy only refurbish amps. hard running amplifier really hot 90°degree heatsink. must not stand on carpet, granite or slab of slate underneath
90 degree heatsink! Is that Celsius since 90F is not that hot? Is that even legal? Most Class A amps stop around 50C, maybe 60C which is already very hot.
 
90 ° celsius the whole housing works according to the chimney principle. draws in cold air from below, therefore the feet and above there is a perforated grille cover where hot air flows out. has two advantages your coffee is always warm and nobody steals it when it is switched on:D
 
at one point i had my ML3's hooked up for two weeks straight. within it's design envelope it could bogie just fine. fantastic bass with the assist from my active bass towers. my room is large, so yes, i could drive it to a point where there was no more getty-up left. it could not scale anywhere close to my darts or the big VAC's. and the ML3's did not light up the far reaches of the soundstage like my darts.

i guess what i'm saying is that it is not a binary question, when running a modestly powered SET on a large dynamic speaker. they can work. but there are trade-offs. i might choose the ML3's for my system over many nice higher powered amps not named darTZeel.
Yes , no thing is binary and I agree Lamm ML3 is better than many high power solidstate amplifiers in your system but in highest level of sound reproduction the ML3 is not the best Amplifier for your loudspeakers.
I like both Kondo and Lamm ML3 , those are absolute king of tube design in my mind but I like to listen to Kondo/Lamm only with horns like Vox Olympian.
 
I understand your observations and they make sense. I’ve listen to the ML3s in one system for about 10 days. The room is huge. The speakers are 115 DB. There were none of the trade-offs or limitations that you describe in your particular system. It’s the best system I have heard and the most realistic sounding. In fact I would be very curious to know what it sounds like with the less powerful 18 watt ML2.

It all goes back to finding an appropriate match between amplifier speaker in room. The interesting aspect of all this is whether or not a particular speaker room choice restricts one in amplifier choices.
When you connect Kondo or ML3 to 115db horn loudspeaker then there is no trade off or limitation in drive/dynamics/scale and this combination (tube+horn) is even more dynamic than best big dynamic driver loudspeakers .
Good Tube/horns remind me the lotus idea about cars (lighter cars are better) . Horn drivers are lighter and faster .
 
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Sorry, you are right , wilson used Siegfrieds (Tetrode: 650W, Triode: 330W) not VTL450.

I have listened to D'Agostino/wilson but it was not good. I think overally Wilson likes tubes more than Solidstate. the best Solidstate amplifier for my Alexandria was Vitus SIA-025 when the AC quality was good.

I am not sure but maybe Dave Wilson used dagostino for sub not main Speaker , if you remember one of best Sound in show 2013 was Wilson/VTL + Sub/Parasound.
250w Parasound solidstate amplifier for subwoofer under 38hz.

Although I am biased - I own the Siegfried II's - and openly said I preferred tubes with the Wilson's, after I have listened to the recent D'Agostino Momentum HD preamplifier and the latest version of his 400 monoblocks I become prepared to reconsider my opinion ...

Solid state amplifiers sound quality changed a lot in the last few years.
 
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90 ° celsius the whole housing works according to the chimney principle. draws in cold air from below, therefore the feet and above there is a perforated grille cover where hot air flows out. has two advantages your coffee is always warm and nobody steals it when it is switched on:D
And the steak on top comes out medium rare! What a great way to listen to music and have a fine dinner at the same time!
 
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Although I am biased - I own the Siegfried II's - and openly said I preferred tubes with the Wilson's, after I have listened to the recent D'Agostino Momentum HD preamplifier and the latest version of his 400 monoblocks I become prepared to reconsider my opinion ...

Solid state amplifiers sound quality changed a lot in the last few years.
Wow...that is say something, Micro. The Siegfrieds are legendary for good reason...and particularly with the big Wilsons. I have heard 2 sets of them with the Rockport Arrakis and still consider it one of the all time great audio experiences for me.
 
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When you connect Kondo or ML3 to 115db horn loudspeaker then there is no trade off or limitation in drive/dynamics/scale and this combination (tube+horn) is even more dynamic than best big dynamic driver loudspeakers .
Good Tube/horns remind me the lotus idea about cars (lighter cars are better) . Horn drivers are lighter and faster .
Interesting...have only heard a few horn setups before...Netherlands and Hong Kong come to mind. That said, never heard the legendary Vox Olympians though have heard a distant lesser cousin of them in London.

Where would you want your sensitivity using the ML3 or Kondo amps? the Vox Olympia is 105db i believe.
 
at one point i had my ML3's hooked up for two weeks straight. within it's design envelope it could bogie just fine. fantastic bass with the assist from my active bass towers. my room is large, so yes, i could drive it to a point where there was no more getty-up left. it could not scale anywhere close to my darts or the big VAC's. and the ML3's did not light up the far reaches of the soundstage like my darts.

i guess what i'm saying is that it is not a binary question, when running a modestly powered SET on a large dynamic speaker. they can work. but there are trade-offs. i might choose the ML3's for my system over many nice higher powered amps not named darTZeel.

Mike,

I am just repeating myself, but you never listened to the ML3's using the LL1 or LL1.1. IMHO one does not manage to appreciate the full potential of the ML3 driving it with other preamplifiers, But surely it is not amplifier for WARP9, as you say.

And unless we have the full details of your speakers impedance - this means the complete plot of impedance and phase of your speakers we can't properly figure the situation - X dB and Y ohms is not enough. Also measurements of the efficiency of large speakers depend a lot on the technique being used - there is a lot of variation on this subject. For example we sometimes see a few dB difference between the manufacturer data and the data reported by Stereophile measurements.
 
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Interesting...have only heard a few horn setups before...Netherlands and Hong Kong come to mind. That said, never heard the legendary Vox Olympians though have heard a distant lesser cousin of them in London.

Where would you want your sensitivity using the ML3 or Kondo amps? the Vox Olympia is 105db i believe.
You can ask Lynn to arrange a meeting and listen to Vox olympian in Living Voice UK showroom.

Kevin uses best transport (CEC) best amplifier (Kondo) best AC supply System for demo.


Maybe Kevin is the best loudspeaker designer in the world, I really like Living voice
 
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You can ask Lynn to arrange a meeting and listen to Vox olympian in Living Voice UK showroom.
Yes...time allowing, I will definitely do that some day. I heard the lesser cousins in London and the owner knows Kevin Scott pretty well so I imagine one way or the other, I will find some time to visit. Thanks for the reminder!
 
90 ° celsius the whole housing works according to the chimney principle. draws in cold air from below, therefore the feet and above there is a perforated grille cover where hot air flows out. has two advantages your coffee is always warm and nobody steals it when it is switched on:D
It would need recapping every 5 years…too hot…
 
It would need recapping every 5 years…too hot…
maybe i don't know. will end up being cheaper than replacing a bunch of tubes.
I would never operate such a speaker with tubes. Anyone who builds something like this should also supply a power amplifier for the speaker. my opinion
 
Mike,

I am just repeating myself, but you never listened to the ML3's using the LL1 or LL1.1. IMHO one does not manage to appreciate the full potential of the ML3 driving it with other preamplifiers, But surely it is not amplifier for WARP9, as you say.

And unless we have the full details of your speakers impedance - this means the complete plot of impedance and phase of your speakers we can't properly figure the situation - X dB and Y ohms is not enough. Also measurements of the efficiency of large speakers depend a lot on the technique being used - there is a lot of variation on this subject. For example we sometimes see a few dB difference between the manufacturer data and the data reported by Stereophile measurements.
my point here in these posts on this thread was not to claim that the ML3 was 100% optimal in my system with the dart pre. only that even so it was good enough to be a strong consideration as a long term part of my system. and if some want to use it with large dynamic speakers i could completely understand. it's a valid choice. are my speaker as easy a load as 97db 7 ohm might indicate? who knows?

we did 400-500 posts back 4 years ago on this subject and beat it to death. i get it. all the usual suspects came back to make the same points. :rolleyes:
 
my point here in these posts on this thread was not to claim that the ML3 was 100% optimal in my system with the dart pre. only that even so it was good enough to be a strong consideration as a long term part of my system. and if some want to use it with large dynamic speakers i could completely understand. it's a valid choice. are my speaker as easy a load as 97db 7 ohm might indicate? who knows?

we did 400-500 posts back 4 years ago on this subject and beat it to death. i get it. all the usual suspects came back to make the same points. :rolleyes:

over 2000 posts on that thread I think
 

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