This hobby is curiosity and $. Audio and music are euphemisms
Zero Distortion: Tango Time
- Thread starter bonzo75
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True for many. But I actually really like music, and find myself extremely interested in changes that allow more music in my life without having to complicated it more. At this point the thought of a speaker that must be far into any space is unthinkable (and unnecessary). The same goes for required sitting positions. But if I had an office like Tang's, and nothing to do with big spaces, I'd consider such overwhelming sized speakers.
That doesn't mean I didn't have my days of wanting the classic hifi setup, or thinking I needed horrid audiophile music to enjoy it.
Hi Andrew,
There is really nothing to enlighten you. It does not seem to make any audiophile sense at all placing the Lamm on top of the gigantic bass horn. But I put them there anyway because of my lack of space and unwillingness to buy cables. i am now in the mode of using what I have. But guess what I am hearing another higher level of reproduced music right now even with the base horn potentially vibrating the hell out of the Lamm. The sound is so "live" right now. I am very surprised with what I am hearing given everyone else has been warning me about possible abnormalities that could come from the sub and the length of time it would take to dial it in. I cannot explain. I just go by my ears and I have been very critical listening trying to fault what I hear. It has been 4 days now. My electronics and cables are operating at top form. It just sound great...better than ever. I will live with status quo for a while and see if my opinion changes. But right now I don't even know why I would even want to pursue further with different amps placement or amp anti vibration platforms. Yes there is always a question in my head if it could go beyond shall i place the amps more logically. But if anyone listen to my system right now and not knowing the amps are on the sub, I don't think he would imagine they are actually on the subs. Some time we better stop and not doing more A/B to see how further we could go. My curiosity always cost me a lot of $.
Hi Tang, i am glad you are enjoying your system so much right now. I find it unbelievable how much is going on in those 2 octaves. Now with the same speed and coherence compared to the mainspeakers.
From the pictures it looks your basshorns are at least one meter more in front than mine where at first so that is a big advantage.
Also these basshorns are that stiff and strong that you can put a car on top if you want (that's what Ralph and his employee said). So i can understand this works for you. There is more vibration on most other places in the room.
Keep safe and enjoy!
Whenever you want to move the amps someday, maybe you can get a small custom made rack between the mainspeaker and basshorn. I don't know how much space there is but i mean something like this. And make the max height incl amp a bit lower than the basshorn.
But first listen for a few months.
View attachment 65884
But first listen for a few months
.View attachment 65884
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I think it all depends indeed on the material / structure of the basshorn to make it a succes or not .
If one puts his finger on the horizontal part where tang is currently sitting and there is no vibration with a loud playing system , its not likely to do much sonically to the amp .
The place close to a vertical " stiffener " would be a good place to put a monoblock .
In these day and age we have a lot of composite materials which make old age audiophile wisedom kinda obselete .
To be sure (and get all audiophile advice of your back )you can hire a vibrationanalyst ( industrial machinery/ SKF company ) for half a day who can do vibration measurements on all your equipment, im sure they have them in thailand .
Your floor the top of your basshorn anything you want done.
he can compare the data while playing loud bass heavy music and with a system turned of or playing on low volume .
Further i would advice to have somebody do Freq response measurements and adjust the horn /basshorn system accordingly .
Tuning by ear is mostly impossible due to recording differences .
One piece will sound good with a certain setting and the other less so and vice versa
Adjusting becomes often an endless circle
If one puts his finger on the horizontal part where tang is currently sitting and there is no vibration with a loud playing system , its not likely to do much sonically to the amp .
The place close to a vertical " stiffener " would be a good place to put a monoblock .
In these day and age we have a lot of composite materials which make old age audiophile wisedom kinda obselete .
To be sure (and get all audiophile advice of your back )you can hire a vibrationanalyst ( industrial machinery/ SKF company ) for half a day who can do vibration measurements on all your equipment, im sure they have them in thailand .
Your floor the top of your basshorn anything you want done.
he can compare the data while playing loud bass heavy music and with a system turned of or playing on low volume .
Further i would advice to have somebody do Freq response measurements and adjust the horn /basshorn system accordingly .
Tuning by ear is mostly impossible due to recording differences .
One piece will sound good with a certain setting and the other less so and vice versa
Adjusting becomes often an endless circle
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Hi Andrew,
There is really nothing to enlighten you. It does not seem to make any audiophile sense at all placing the Lamm on top of the gigantic bass horn. But I put them there anyway because of my lack of space and unwillingness to buy cables. i am now in the mode of using what I have. But guess what I am hearing another higher level of reproduced music right now even with the base horn potentially vibrating the hell out of the Lamm. The sound is so "live" right now. I am very surprised with what I am hearing given everyone else has been warning me about possible abnormalities that could come from the sub and the length of time it would take to dial it in. I cannot explain. I just go by my ears and I have been very critical listening trying to fault what I hear. It has been 4 days now. My electronics and cables are operating at top form. It just sound great...better than ever. I will live with status quo for a while and see if my opinion changes. But right now I don't even know why I would even want to pursue further with different amps placement or amp anti vibration platforms. Yes there is always a question in my head if it could go beyond shall i place the amps more logically. But if anyone listen to my system right now and not knowing the amps are on the sub, I don't think he would imagine they are actually on the subs. Some time we better stop and not doing more A/B to see how further we could go. My curiosity always cost me a lot of $.
adding deep bass does seem to make sense of everything else especially the treble, I think the movement of large quantities of air and treble queue are suddenly aligned but phase is very important make sure they are aligned for optimal result glad your enjoying them
Was mingling with the cross over and adjustment quite a bit yesterday. The Lamm's are now on the bass horn...not the best place to be but will play around later. All equipments were unplugged for 2-3 weeks. Normally my system takes 3-4 days to get back from a break. It is sounding pretty good actually. This is quite a learning process. Ddk advised me a few things. I dont take his advises right out. Have no 30 yrs experience like him, Gian, Mike and others in this forum. So, I want to have fun and learn hearing everything myself with each change in variable at a time.
View attachment 65737
Vinyl curtesy from Zerostargeneral on piano.
Vinyl curtesy from Zerostargeneral on violin.
Pure Cello
i thought an interest to listen to 14 different version of the Chaconne from Partita no 2 BMW 1004
You are explaining what I hear. I added subs but my treble is actually sound more convincingly natural too. It is not a thing I expect to get from adding subs. I tried to explain what I hear from adding subs and I think i have no ability to do it. It is the hardest to describe.adding deep bass does seem to make sense of everything else especially the treble, I think the movement of large quantities of air and treble queue are suddenly aligned but phase is very important make sure they are aligned
Thank you audioquattr. Awsmone suggested me to move the horns even closer to where I sit. I have room for only one additional foot. But where it is now, I am quite satisfied. These Cessaro are so transparent and alive.
Have you listened to digital yet
Tang ? I am a analog guy like you, but the improvement of digital with good deep bass is very evident. The higher channel separation and more prevalent deep bass information on digital makes a difference in this region. Recordings that did sound bad without deep bass capabilities can suddenly take on a whole new dimension when played correctly.
On the other hand some recordings will have excessive bass that will over energize the whole room. You might even enjoy a wider variety of music, god forbid ,rock is not always the music of the devil
Tang ? I am a analog guy like you, but the improvement of digital with good deep bass is very evident. The higher channel separation and more prevalent deep bass information on digital makes a difference in this region. Recordings that did sound bad without deep bass capabilities can suddenly take on a whole new dimension when played correctly.
On the other hand some recordings will have excessive bass that will over energize the whole room. You might even enjoy a wider variety of music, god forbid ,rock is not always the music of the devil
Tang, we need a photo of you at the listening chair. It is sounding like a amazingly pair of horn headphones
Today I listened to " Hey Hey Hey Hey! Ooh Oooh Ooh O... Don't you forget about me. I'll be alone dancing you know hey baby." Simple Mind. The Breakfast Club. Thinking sweet sixteen red head Molly Ringwall. I do listen to 80's pop and electro. Very little rock.Have you listened to digital yet
Tang ? I am a analog guy like you, but the improvement of digital with good deep bass is very evident. The higher channel separation and more prevalent deep bass information on digital makes a difference in this region. Recordings that did sound bad without deep bass capabilities can suddenly take on a whole new dimension when played correctly.
On the other hand some recordings will have excessive bass that will over energize the whole room. You might even enjoy a wider variety of music, god forbid ,rock is not always the music of the devil
Hey i’m not talking about hard rock, that will never sound good
A little Rolling Stones live, Bruce Springsteen live or Steve Ray Vaughn can really sound good on a system that can do large scale. Good deep bass has changed my listening habits towards more variety.
Haha I know these bass horns r crazy heavy
but given the investment put they on dollies till u lock in the phase Moving back and forth
it’s like focusing a camera lenses
i think u should listen to violin solo for treble and body of instrument till it growls with an earthy woodyness and sweet high harmonic
but given the investment put they on dollies till u lock in the phase Moving back and forth
it’s like focusing a camera lenses
i think u should listen to violin solo for treble and body of instrument till it growls with an earthy woodyness and sweet high harmonic
it's the whole 'warmth' thing.
fatness in the mid-bass, even if it's feedback resonance, can be musical. it's the opposite of harsh. right now it's an attribute......and part of something new and exciting.
the question is whether it will be limiting to what musical truth is desired down the road?
like Peter A. and his room treatment and vibra-plane. you can like something, and then like something else better. Peter had to try it differently to find out.
time will tell.
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Hello, Tang!
I’ve been a silent participant in the forum so far though much enjoy reading about your adventures in the audio world
I have a somewhat different model of Ralph’s FLH bass-horns - they are wider (around 4.2m in width together) but look to be a bit shallower - I think about 1.3m deep in the center.
I do not think moving them front or back a bit will make a huge impact on the low bass frequencies` Integration with the mid-bass horn, as the LF wave needs space and time to develop in any case, and its front does not end precisely at the horn’s mouth. Especially if you move around your room a bit and do not sit in a single listening position all the time.
This wide dispersion and ability to integrate acoustic space-time and keep an even acoustic energy level at various positions in the listening room (provided you are beyond the minimal HF/MF/mid-bass integration frontier) is one of the key advantages of the horn system.
Remember about the subsonic filter on your bass amps. I much prefer to keep it in “On” position as this cuts the deep bass room resonance in my house quite a bit, clearing up the LF even more.
And a pic of my old school Gamma here - they were made from exquisite birch plywood before Ralph moved to modern hi-tech composite materials
And I have my Border Patrol amp power supplies AND a CD player AND a Rubidium clock just in front of the horns
I’ve been a silent participant in the forum so far though much enjoy reading about your adventures in the audio world
I have a somewhat different model of Ralph’s FLH bass-horns - they are wider (around 4.2m in width together) but look to be a bit shallower - I think about 1.3m deep in the center.
I do not think moving them front or back a bit will make a huge impact on the low bass frequencies` Integration with the mid-bass horn, as the LF wave needs space and time to develop in any case, and its front does not end precisely at the horn’s mouth. Especially if you move around your room a bit and do not sit in a single listening position all the time.
This wide dispersion and ability to integrate acoustic space-time and keep an even acoustic energy level at various positions in the listening room (provided you are beyond the minimal HF/MF/mid-bass integration frontier) is one of the key advantages of the horn system.
Remember about the subsonic filter on your bass amps. I much prefer to keep it in “On” position as this cuts the deep bass room resonance in my house quite a bit, clearing up the LF even more.
And a pic of my old school Gamma here - they were made from exquisite birch plywood before Ralph moved to modern hi-tech composite materials
And I have my Border Patrol amp power supplies AND a CD player AND a Rubidium clock just in front of the horns
Vlad, welcome to the horns are best forum.
Everyone has their own views on videos, but if you can, please post some videos playing classical, recorded on Samsung or iPhone.
Everyone has their own views on videos, but if you can, please post some videos playing classical, recorded on Samsung or iPhone.
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