Zero Distortion: Tango Time

[the sound of Tao]

I’d be figuring that if I had Bionors, Lamms and American Sound here that perhaps I’d probably not feel the need to modify it at all too much, but David if you have a more essentially mortal (less than ideal) system why is it that simple tweaking and modifying that system should be just verboten. Everything is ultimately implementation. If we can make modifications (upgrade capacitors, mechanical isolation, improve any part including wiring) that can move a less than ideal system to a greater naturalness and rightness all in the service of music why shouldn’t we? We engage in system building, everything we do is a construct, there are no black and white rules, just what works or doesn’t. If your values are placed in music rather than in sonics you can’t go too far wrong surely.

 

[ddk]

I’d be figuring that if I had Bionors, Lamms and American Sound here that perhaps I’d probably not feel the need to modify it at all too much, but David if you have a more essentially mortal (less than ideal) system why is it that simple tweaking and modifying that system should be just verboten. Everything is ultimately implementation. If we can make modifications (upgrade capacitors, mechanical isolation, improve any part including wiring) that can move a less than ideal system to a greater naturalness and rightness all in the service of music why shouldn’t we? We engage in system building, everything we do is a construct, there are no black and white rules, just what works or doesn’t. If your values are placed in music rather than in sonics you can’t go too far wrong surely.

What I said isn’t limited to my system or mega dollar ones plenty of them are horrendous, it can also apply to very modest ones that are quite capable. Also nothing is verboten everyone’s free to make their own decisions, what’s discussed in these threads is experience of all members, you decide what makes sense for you. If I push back on certain things is because I’m convinced it matters and application of them is a 180 degree U turn from what is supposed to be the general ideal here, good sound. Natural and musical.

I’m not against tweaks and in fact part of a good install always involves tweaking to fit the system and room but there are over tweaked scenarios that you have to pull back from. I also see many overpriced widgets/tweaks with false claims on the market today that sound killers and once installed and left in a system the tendency is to add to the problem by adding more of such products and burrowing deeper down the rabbit hole rather than climbing out. These products are what I rail about and I have received enough positive feedback from quite a number of members to know that I’m helping people with their systems. Ironically dealers get blamed for overloading the customers with unnecessary junk but I get flamed for doing the opposite .

Of course implementation matters but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t nasty products, ignoring that is a mistake. Don’t forget that highend is an regulated industry selling the premise and not guarantee of an OBSCURITY that many can’t even define properly, you don’t believe that there are both conmen and ignoramous thriving in this type of situation?

I don’t know what you do but like everything there’s black & white in high too, basic rules need to be followed to have success. IMO, for those who need this affirmation.

david

 

[spiritofmusic]

Dave, I would truly like to know how far do you take yr philosophy.

I'm assuming at a very minimum, we need a good room. If one doesn't have that, do you approve of acoustic panels? Or do you say make do w that room, or find a better room?

Dedicated lines ok? Radial main? If so, does one go pricey Oyaides lines eg, or bog standard stuff you'd find in a commercial electrical outlet?

Furutech sockets? Or again industrial/commercial bog standard?

Why go Ching Cheng pwr cords? Can find pwr cords under $5 off Amazon.

Fine to just stack amps, dacs, servers, phonos staight on the floor or a simple Ikea bookshelf?

Fuses? Stick w stock? All specialist fuses a racket?

Etc etc.

How far is the de-tweaking gonna go to be consistent w yr worldview?

 

[Rhapsody]

No reflection on your sound Bob but this isn’t about personal preference this is about a material used in some products that strip the reproduced sound of harmonics and macro and micro dynamics and I’m pretty sure that no one wants that.

david

My sample is from as I said maybe 10 visitors/listeners week. Not one of these visitors over the last few months since I inserted the Diazas have ever thought my systems lacked macro/micro dynamics, bass texture, correct and not exaggerated harmonics.

Although what I encounter is guys that are not "tuned in" as WBF members are in describing what they hear. They really don't get that granular. They either like it or they don't. A lot of them "like it" because it has a room encompassing pressurization with an incredible layered soundstage. Some like it because the tonality is to their liking. Some like it because it just sounds right to them and they don't even know why, but they like it.

So for this conversation at WBF about materials and their effect on the sound I get it and have at it. In my world it's more about having everything. Micro/macro dynamics, timbre/tonality, layered 3D holographic soundstage, clear articulate textured bass, clear accurate top end, full bodied room filling, wall of sound. I get all of these in spades WITh the Diazas in place. I would not have them in place if my sound, in my estimation did not deliver the goods.

David, you might listen to my system and say it doesn't do anything that you like or it's just all wrong. I would respect your opinion of course, but for myself and everyone that visits me and that's a LOT of people it does everything that both I and they like and enjoy, even if it's wrong to others.

I went back and counted, since I have had the Daizas in my room I have sold 7 sets of speakers, one VYGER, 3 Extreme servers, two integrated amps, and two sets of preamps/amps. All of this from listening to my systems with the Diazas in place. So maybe they do "whatever" to the sound, but for whatever reason they work for me in my environment.

 

[microstrip]

Can I consider that using a special custom platform designed and specified by the manufacturer of the AirForce One turntable in a rack also recommended by TechDas is being tweak free?

 

[PeterA]

Poor Tang will never make another You Tube vid for us now.

Perhaps this is precisely why you don’t see other people posting videos of their systems.

 

[PeterA]

If I show you the videos, you will hear the differences on youtube.

Two birds with one stone, and reconciliation on What is Best.

 

[gian60]

Hi Tang,forget the sax and do one video with jazz and vibraphone,will be fantastic

 

[gian60]

Hi Tang,when you will buy a second system for your new home?
So we will enjoy the forum for next 2/3 months

 

[PeterA]

Dave, I would truly like to know how far do you take yr philosophy.

I'm assuming at a very minimum, we need a good room. If one doesn't have that, do you approve of acoustic panels? Or do you say make do w that room, or find a better room?

Dedicated lines ok? Radial main? If so, does one go pricey Oyaides lines eg, or bog standard stuff you'd find in a commercial electrical outlet?

Furutech sockets? Or again industrial/commercial bog standard?

Why go Ching Cheng pwr cords? Can find pwr cords under $5 off Amazon.

Fine to just stack amps, dacs, servers, phonos staight on the floor or a simple Ikea bookshelf?

Fuses? Stick w stock? All specialist fuses a racket?

Etc etc.

How far is the de-tweaking gonna go to be consistent w yr worldview?

Marc, great subject for a new, dedicated thread.

 

[bonzo75]

Marc, great subject for a new, dedicated thread.

Exactly. Guys, unless you want to fight, please move to a new thread

 

[NorthStar]

I noticed less music playing from Tango's music videos and more discussions in the affairs of "beach wood". It's a very interesting fascinating stem (branch) of the audio tree.

His last music video; were those wood boards under his amps...to me it sounded like they were.
But I'm getting hold of my ears and years and time is escaping my landscape ...

 

[christoph]

Hi Tang,when you will buy a second system for your new home?
So we will enjoy the forum for next 2/3 months

 

[microstrip]

(...) How far is the de-tweaking gonna go to be consistent w yr worldview?

When I listen to new equipment I usually de-tweak my system to the maximum. Although I have a fair number of tweaks in my system, the first listening sessions are usually carried with Ching Cheng power cords and Mogami cables, without any footers or grounding systems. Even the power distributor is home made using Hubell sockets - oops, the frame of the box is made from wood ...

The only exception are the Transaparent Audio digital cables - the stock cheap ones coming with the Vivaldi for checking operation were too poor sounding.

 

[ddk]

Dave, I would truly like to know how far do you take yr philosophy.........How far is the de-tweaking gonna go to be consistent w yr worldview?

Decided to move it to another thread called On the Subject of Tweaks.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/on-the-subject-of-tweaks.29380/
david

 

[Tango]

I noticed less music playing from Tango's music videos and more discussions in the affairs of "beach wood". It's a very interesting fascinating stem (branch) of the audio tree.

His last music video; were those wood boards under his amps...to me it sounded like they were.
But I'm getting hold of my ears and years and time is escaping my landscape ...

Hi Bob, Hi PeterA,

I really dont get discouraged in posting videos at all. Most criticism and speculation are on sound and gears which are not personal. These comments can be very useful everyone just has to be open minded about it. I enjoy finding new music and share them. Happiness is more when you can share. So this will continue.

Tang

 

[Tango]

Hi Tang,forget the sax and do one video with jazz and vibraphone,will be fantastic

Dear Gian,

Somehow you and I have so much in common and always have mutual understanding. I don't even need to say and you know what I am thinking. Would be wonderful if we were neighbor.

Hi Tang,when you will buy a second system for your new home?
So we will enjoy the forum for next 2/3 months

No new house for next 2/3 months Gian. I like my small house right now although no audio. If I have a chance to build a dedicated listening room I will put three systems on three sides of the room. That would be quite a place for you to visit.

Ciao,
Tang

 

[NorthStar]

Hi Bob, Hi PeterA,

I really dont get discouraged in posting videos at all. Most criticism and speculation are on sound and gears which are not personal. These comments can be very useful everyone just has to be open minded about it. I enjoy finding new music and share them. Happiness is more when you can share. So this will continue.

Tang

I agree 100% with what you've just said. It's one of the best fun music sharing experience you give us all. I know some people who hate music videos and that's their choice. But to the vast majority who love them it fits nicely with our audio/music hobby...like a white glove.
It's not the end of the world but the continuation of a beautiful journey.

Right on to you Tang, you gave us a lot more than what you bargain for.

 

[bonzo75]

Hi Bob, Hi PeterA,

I really dont get discouraged in posting videos at all. Most criticism and speculation are on sound and gears which are not personal. These comments can be very useful everyone just has to be open minded about it. I enjoy finding new music and share them. Happiness is more when you can share. So this will continue.

Tang

You made a lot of people happy over the last three days tang

 

[gian60]

Dear Gian,

Somehow you and I have so much in common and always have mutual understanding. I don't even need to say and you know what I am thinking. Would be wonderful if we were neighbor.



No new house for next 2/3 months Gian. I like my small house right now although no audio. If I have a chance to build a dedicated listening room I will put three systems on three sides of the room. That would be quite a place for you to visit.

Ciao,
Tang

I will be also very happy to be your neighbor,with my big advantage i could try your carts,SAT,Sme 3012,Emt,Lamm ML 3,Tripoint,AS 2000
in my system