I’m pretty excited that since my Io had not been built over the last several years it now will enjoy those new transformers.
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Aesthetix Io Users Group
- Thread starter audioquest4life
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For me, the dual p supply + partial Eclipse upgrade I did some years ago, has clearly paid off - however the system took a while to settle down, maybe 200 hours. Since then, I have never looked back. It seems probable that the lower winding SL versions of Lyra carts would sound even more pure than my 'standard' Atlas (0.56 mV), but on the other hand, this does give the Io a hefty input, which it likes, in my experience. Even if a lower output cart can be tuned to the Io using a cart step up stage, this is not the way to go, according to advice received from Aesthetix, also confirmed by my own ears (limited testing). The Io sounds more pure on its own. So, a dilemma appears. Either, use the best NOS tubes in the first gain stage of the Io (and elsewhere - but these are very important) - or, use the best low noise new tubes. You can have NOS tube musicality - or new tube low noise. Not both.
Is anyone using Dexoit gold on tube pins and sockets for their Io? I have been reading that not only cleaning and maintaining the tube pin connection but using a product like Deoxit gold and leaving it on the tube pins will actually reduce noise. I have used Deoxit D series to clean interconnects but I usually clean the surface and then wipe the Dexoit off the connection when I have finished cleaning.
Definitely not doing that. My experience has been that any product that leaves a residue can gum up tube sockets over time. My solution is to use Kontak once or twice a year to remove oxidation in the tube sockets. Also use it on the tube pins along with a fiberglass eraser.
Here's what I do,
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Aesthetix Io Users Group
wishing you the best possible outcome for the surgery be careful to use Caig sparingly and remove any excess - CRC electronics cleaner spray can be used on the tube sockets I only use Caig on tube pins since it can be easily removed, I do not use it on the sockets (it has a red oily film) I...
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I qualify that last statement. You can probably have both NOS musicality and ultra low noise, but only if you are lucky and / or rich. These top 12ax7 NOS that are ALSO very quiet are getting hard to find.
Have anyone of you tested 2 Telefunken + 2 others (NOS, or new) 12ax7s, in the Io's first gain stage?
Kcin - your file link just says Loading, at my end
Have anyone of you tested 2 Telefunken + 2 others (NOS, or new) 12ax7s, in the Io's first gain stage?
Kcin - your file link just says Loading, at my end
I have used some electrical contact spray cleaner when installing tubes (on the tube pins only, not the sockets), but not as a regular procedure. I didnt hear much of a difference but should maybe repeat the test. What I do, maybe once a year, when I open the Io chassis, is to snuggle the tubes a bit, to ensure good electrical contact. The sockets are clearly of good quality, holding the tubes in a good grip, even after many years of heat / operation.
Did we reach a conclusion, regarding tonearm cable? Maybe, XLR is ok, but no big deal? Since the first gain stage is single ended, it should not matter much - but maybe it does? I noted this old comment from Mike at Audioasylum: «with my aesthetix io/koetsu rosewood platinum signature combo i am able to use the 64 db setting with the balanced phono cable vs. the 72db setting with single ended phono cable to get the same gain coming out of the io. dynamics and noise seem to be better with the balanced/64db combination. can this perception be correct?"
I'd like to test DIN to XLR cable, esp to hear if the noise improves, but they are not so easy to find now. My existing RCA are short Kimber kcag.
I'd like to test DIN to XLR cable, esp to hear if the noise improves, but they are not so easy to find now. My existing RCA are short Kimber kcag.
Reading back in this thread:
Outsiders should be welcomed, not just 'insiders' having used the Io for years. Sorry if I implied otherwise in a post above.
Opinions on the optimal Io gain to preamp diverge . Maybe as high as 100 pct (82,5 db) or further down to 60. Lower than that, the Io sounds less dynamic. It obviously depends on the cart input and the preamp, but there seems to be a convergence; try the Io with max or close to max gain.
Outsiders should be welcomed, not just 'insiders' having used the Io for years. Sorry if I implied otherwise in a post above.
Opinions on the optimal Io gain to preamp diverge . Maybe as high as 100 pct (82,5 db) or further down to 60. Lower than that, the Io sounds less dynamic. It obviously depends on the cart input and the preamp, but there seems to be a convergence; try the Io with max or close to max gain.
Other than the more solid feel of XLR no gain - in performance from my point of view vs. going single ended.
I have used both SE and XLR in many configurations of cable into the Io over many years.
In fact, if you believe the latest thinking on connectors- see KLE connectors- the mass and materials of the typical XLR is detrimental to signal integrity as most xlr's are brass and zinc. FWIW I really like the low mass KLE connectors in the upper range of their line up.
Cleaning sockets and connectors has a profound effect on everything that matters IMO. How you do it is of course, your choice.
I don't spray into sockets , but i do clean them and I do polish and treat tube pins- I wipe 99% of it off , it makes for a big improvement. Most people don't do it because its a lot of work.
Mostly agree, but with the Atlas and GFS not necessary in my system- to your point system and room dependent. I still haven't found a preamp that I can pair with the Io that does not loose information. I having a great time with the silver slagle autoformer. It preserves the integrity with out any loses.
That is hard to explain. A cartridge can be wired to an appropriately equipped phono stage single ended or balanced. But, the cartridge is not changing its overall output when wired balanced. It is still 0.2 to 0.6 millivolts (or thereabouts for most moving coil cartridges). What does make a difference in gain is whether the single ended or balanced outputs of the Io are used. The balanced outputs will produce double the voltage into a differential input.
I have invested in a Telefunken ECC83 quad for the first gain stage. The NOS Philips I use have a lot to recommend them. I like the way they sound, but they have gradually become a bit too noisy, in this stage. They may do very well in the next stages however. Maybe you have suggestions? Looking forward to the new quad, selected for low noise by the seller. Hope it works out.
Also - a little off topic, maybe. As you all know, with the Io, investments and adjustments earlier in the sound chain really pay off. Like optimal cart alignment. I am testing Fozgometer v2 for azimuth adjustment, and even if my setup was already quite good, there seems to be an improvement.
Also - a little off topic, maybe. As you all know, with the Io, investments and adjustments earlier in the sound chain really pay off. Like optimal cart alignment. I am testing Fozgometer v2 for azimuth adjustment, and even if my setup was already quite good, there seems to be an improvement.
Fozgometer testing, well worth it, still going on.
Anyone with advice, what do you do with your very good NOS tubes in the first gain stage, sounding musical as ever but gradually developing more background tube noise? Are these actually "low hanging fruit" later in the chain - in positions where the noise level is less critical? Should I try them in a later gain stage, or in a power supply - or are they best forgotten?
Anyone with advice, what do you do with your very good NOS tubes in the first gain stage, sounding musical as ever but gradually developing more background tube noise? Are these actually "low hanging fruit" later in the chain - in positions where the noise level is less critical? Should I try them in a later gain stage, or in a power supply - or are they best forgotten?
I used to use a similar product in another system configuration when I was living in Europe. But, As Oldvinyl mentioned, some products can leave residue which is not good. My recollection was using the Walker Audio SST silver treatment on power cables and tube pins. I did notice a perceived improvement in sound when used on the AC cables, Neotech and Isotek. For the tubes, well, I hesitated but gave it a shot in few tube spots on the Octave MRE tube amps. I did extensive tube rolling at the time, so did not really get a sonic signature from using SST on the tube pins. The residue was highly visible on the AC power cables and also visible on the tube pins so I stopped using it. Todays AC cables perform way better and I don’t feel a need to add any liquid contact enhancer.
Hi OGH,
Did you get your new quad of Tele ECC83s installed? If so, how are they sounding? My system is packed up and waiting to be put back into service sometime next summer. Your results will aid in my decision to obtain these tubes or not while I am anxiously waiting to put my system back into service.
Looking forward to reading further test results from you regarding the Fozgometer V2. I have the V1 and find it a very useful tool for the analog aficionado.
Hmmm, well, it’s a quandary, a catch-22 with the tube issues in the first stage. I am still (was, until pack-out) listening to the matched, balanced, and low noise Sovteks I ordered for the first stage. Although, Aesthetix conducts extensive tube matching with the Io before they are sent out when new, overhauled, or repaired, it seems as if the first stage may sometimes be prone to getting noisy…even though when measured and tested with tubes installed at the factory for low noise within the unit before being shipped out. The tubes supplied by Aesthetix nowadays are the JJs. I experienced the proverbial whistle in the first stage with the factory supplied tube even after my last upgrade. This was shortly after getting it back..approximately 30-45 days later. This has been a trait with my unit since new in 2004. The factory supplied tubes when playing without issues sound absolutely amazing and I did not at first want to do any tube rolling, it is a great unit as is. I experimented a lot over the years with V1 through V6 gain stage tubes…always returning back to the factory tubes after the first gain stage, but continued testing other tubes in the first gain stage. As you know, I settled on the Sovteks as I find them quite a happy medium between sound qualities and life expectancy, I.e, no down time.
I am amazed! I just changed from the Philips to the Tele in the first gain stage. First thought: where has the noise gone? I measured with a Velleman analog db meter, 10 cm in front of the speakers, no music playing, and volume quite high (louder than I usually play). Results: Philips 64 db - Tele 56 db. Impressive. Equal left/right. I don't think I've ever heard so low-noise Tele ECC83. Maybe even better than the selected JJs I got from Aesthetix, and the LPS quad.
Audioquest4life - proverbial whistle in the first stage
Can you describe? Some sort of hum, or interference?
When I do the tube noise testing, with the volume unrealistically high (two thirds of max maybe) in order to get clear readings from the db meter, I can hear whatever goes on, electrically speaking...even with a dedicated line. Like maybe there is a radio station trying to say something. A couple of years ago we had to move the alarm box away from the listening/living room since it was sending data bursts to the central every 8 minute, sounding like a noise storm through the Io. I still hear a tiny bit of interference, now, maybe it can be improved with some cable dressing but as long as it is so low I can live with it. In my system, now, the noise level from the Io is quite similar (a tiny bit louder) to the noise on the digital input. Quite a change.
Can you describe? Some sort of hum, or interference?
When I do the tube noise testing, with the volume unrealistically high (two thirds of max maybe) in order to get clear readings from the db meter, I can hear whatever goes on, electrically speaking...even with a dedicated line. Like maybe there is a radio station trying to say something. A couple of years ago we had to move the alarm box away from the listening/living room since it was sending data bursts to the central every 8 minute, sounding like a noise storm through the Io. I still hear a tiny bit of interference, now, maybe it can be improved with some cable dressing but as long as it is so low I can live with it. In my system, now, the noise level from the Io is quite similar (a tiny bit louder) to the noise on the digital input. Quite a change.
dan31 - spray treatment - I have not used any special treatments but some el contact cleaner on the tube pins some times. They then settle a bit easier into the sockets, which may be due to some component (fat, silicone etc) we don't actually want. So I am back to my very subjective 'method', wriggle the tube a bit in the socket to ensure best contact. I might take some close-ups of the pins of the Philips tubes I just removed. Although not sure, what to look for, corrosion or whatever. If there isn't a problem, why fix it.
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