You could use smaller amps when triamping, no? less power per amp would be needed...or perhaps your amps are like my Aries Cerat (70+KG) where the weight is not all about the power...tramping with 3 pairs of 50kg dual chassis monos would impress even my wife.......or not.....
I've not found this to be true. But you do have to be careful, since so many solid state amps make higher ordered harmonic distortion, in small amounts of course. But the ear doesn't care about that (its very sensitive to the higher orders) and interprets that distortion as harshness and brightness which is very easy to hear on horns. But not all solid state has this problem.
The problem with getting the bass to blend is the crossover point. IMO the Avantgarde subs cross over too high (about 200Hz IIRC) making a blend very difficult.
If you're just driving the horn and it's highly efficient - not a hybrid horn with a direct radiator bass unit and a passive crossover, it seems the need is for an amp that provides very low noise at relatively low output levels. More power won't hurt but I wouldn't trade it for better performance at low power. Most amps have an increasing signal to noise ratio as output goes up because the background noise level tends to stay constant regardless of power output until the amp reaches it's limits and starts to distort. That starting noise level needs to be lower for a horn, and I assume that it's easier to achieve with an amp that doesn't have to put out as much power. I don't know much about amplifier design, but I wonder how an amp specifically designed to run a high efficiency compression driver in an active setup would be different in design than one built for more general, lower efficiency speaker use. Any amp designers out there?Hello,
From conventional High Amp world, I’ve a question regarding the relationship between high sensitivity/efficiency and amp power.
For example, in case of high efficiency horn speakers that can be easily driven by 12w tube amp,
SS (Pass Int 25) vs SS (Pass Int 60) would NOT make difference?
Or does still Int 60 make better sound?
I’m in a small room so I figure out that I’m good with Class A 30watt for most speakers, but
I heard that it’s always to have more power in the box to create deeper / wider spacial sound.
How about horn speakers?
Please consider that I’m new to this and be gentle
with the AG Trios I hipassed subs at 130 to meet the midbasshorn rolloff
Clean, open, detailed, high resolution, etc.
130 Hz for Trios is still far too high. Even with Duos, it's about 140 Hz for good blend between their much small mid horn to the bass. Trios are reported to be best set up with about 80 Hz crossover. The User Manuals are just wrong in my (and others) opinion regarding XO frequencies throughout the Uno, Duo, Trio range. Also worth trying is to connect the sub out-of-phase compared with the horns. There is far more electronics in the path to the sub drivers so phase is best experimented with. Perhaps you never needed to ditch your Trios . Did you get Jim Smith to help set them up?
There are. The gain issue is very real; amps of traditional design that make 200 watts or more often have 30-35 dB of gain too, because its expected that the amp will be driving a speaker that might only be 89 or 90dB. You need that extra gain so that the preamp isn't being pushed to its limits.
Actually that's true with most subs- cross them over below 80Hz and they are far less likely to attract attention to themselves.
Interestingly, I have had a Velodyne in my systems since 1993...upgrading models over time. Even when I had Celestion SL6si and then SF Guarneris...I still dont think I crossed over at 80hz, preferring to have a gap/hole than the 'bleeding over bass'...I think I tended to get down with those around 55hz+.
Of course! If you're working with horns, Nelson Pass makes the First Watt amps, some of which have almost not gain at all. Some class D modules are available without buffer input circuits (I think the Hypex is an example) and so have low gain, about 15-17dB. They are a bit hard to drive in this state, but its not that hard to come up with a buffer that ameliorates the low input impedance but otherwise has no gain. That would be more of a DIY project though. I'm certain other examples are out there.
The Avantgarde range use a "sub" as part of their 3 or 4 way system, so the sub has to provide all the frequences below the level that the mid-range horn can provide. In some AG speakers, this is in the region of 170 Hz, so AG's "subs" have to be set much higher than subs that are added to conventional speakers. The Trio, being a 4 way system with a very large lower-mid horn is the only model in their range where the XO can be set as low as 80 Hz. Setting a Duo or Uno sub to 80 Hz would result is a big gap in the frequency range offered by the system as a whole.
Better still - some have user adjustable gain. Accuphase amps usually have a front panel switch offering 4 settings (up to -12dB), GamuT amps have internal dip switches offering 4 levels (up to -14dB) and the Benchmark amp has a rear switch offering 3 settings. These are great if you use high efficiency speakers that need less gain but greater signal to noise ratio.
Thanks much! That's clued me in a bit.
Great info! I'm going to start looking into options. My tweeters hiss a bit. It's nothing terrible but one of the few things I have to complain about, and something one other person who's listened to my system has noticed.
Tim - There are more low powered amps that are suitable for horn speakers than might be expected. You show no "Signature" with your equipment listed so I'm wondering what speakers you have and which amplifier is generating the hiss you mention.
I just start my journey with Trio LE and bass integration.
