it´s BS that the Trio midbasshorns go to 100Hz...they start to roll of from about 130-140Hz, so you might a s well set the subs to 120 right away and save yourself some hazzle
High efficiency horn speaker amp question
- Thread starter Sangbro
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I think Marslo will find you are wrong in saying that subs should be set that high. Even in Duos with 2 horns instead of 3 and a much smaller mid-horn, the XO is best set at around 140 Hz. My guess is that the happiest XO for Trios will be around 80. Too much oberlap causes a muddled sound and definitely not ideal. The phase of the sub may well be best reversed, but again, this will show up by experimentation.
Perhaps this idea will not be feasible based on your room dimensions and visual preference, but it may be a useful concept?:
Have two 'u-baffle' open baffle subwoofers built for you optimized for one octave ( say 60hz to 120hz ) and place them next to the main speakers. This topology is known to be easier to integrate... Then use the REL subs below ( say 55hz or?) where that topology shines. Yes now there are 4 subs
If the physical and optical requirements can allow this, another advantage is you will be more free to place the REL subs wherever proves to be to the rooms best advantage.
Just an Idea...
Have two 'u-baffle' open baffle subwoofers built for you optimized for one octave ( say 60hz to 120hz ) and place them next to the main speakers. This topology is known to be easier to integrate... Then use the REL subs below ( say 55hz or?) where that topology shines. Yes now there are 4 subs
If the physical and optical requirements can allow this, another advantage is you will be more free to place the REL subs wherever proves to be to the rooms best advantage.
Just an Idea...
A tip from a Open Baffle Fan
Use two 15"Woofer like this for a U Baffle or 12" ripole ,
that goes to 23 hz. Cut it 80hz- 90hz/24dB filter
You need no more REL Sub
Amp dsp modul
www.minidsp.com
Use two 15"Woofer like this for a U Baffle or 12" ripole ,
that goes to 23 hz. Cut it 80hz- 90hz/24dB filter
You need no more REL Sub
Dipole15 - Open Baffle Applications - Acoustic Elegance woofer
Dipole15 woofers are designed for open baffle bass applications. Featuring the Full Copper Faraday Sleeve (FCFS) for incredibly accurate reproduction.
aespeakers.com
PWR-ICE250
The PWR-ICE250 is a DSP powered plate amplifier module for active 2 way loudspeakers or mono subwoofers. Result of the collaborative effort of miniDSP and IcePower technologies.
When I wrote my post I was thinking AE woofers as well Was just thinking if 6x12" woofers was too much visually could split duties with smaller OB subs but if course your idea is more ideal
Was just thinking if 6x12" woofers was too much visually could split duties with smaller OB subs but if course your idea is more ideal
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Peter - @Hear Here is right. The signal in REL subs goes not directly to the sub amplifier but is transformed by the built in filter. REL recommends to start the setup of the crossover with 15 cliks +-3 from 0 and then adjust the volume , moving the sub around.
Another question is the phase between the main speakers and the subs. For time being I am far from the real integration , I will try next week Crossfire III instead of Circle Labs amp.
Another question is the phase between the main speakers and the subs. For time being I am far from the real integration , I will try next week Crossfire III instead of Circle Labs amp.
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I have 4x15" in Open Baffle i get over 100dB at 12 feet away at myWhen I wrote my post I was thinking AE woofers as well
listening position at 30 Hz enough for me.
When you need it smaler go get a Ripol sub,can be integrated with horn speakers, upright, stackable. a few building suggestions.
There are no limits to your imagination, it is important to keep the calculated design. go to Ridthaler website, tell him what kind of woofer you want to use.
He will calculate the exact size of the housing for you. it is patent from him.
This might be a good idea, as the Crossfire has a volume controlled RCA out, that also works when you use the Crossfire as an integrated amp.
May be worth a try to go Line-Level to the subs this way.
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The amp for the subs is class d? Given you need to go up to around 100hz or higher, the difference in sonic texture will work against a good blend. Using the crossfire pre out might help to mitigate that somewhat but perhaps not completely.
Those Ridthal subs look very interesting but I would definitely also have a look at the triple OB servo subs that @kodomo uses and obviously likes a lot better than his huge tapped horn subwoofers he used before
And iIrc those servo subs use AB amplification
I respect the sentiment of you horn owners that dislike different amp topologies. And I expect, as Morricab mentions above, that to successfully multiamp (passive or active) it should be done with similar or same sounding amplifiers regardless if one uses tube or sand amps.
I'm going to try this on my Altec model 17s as I have never got them quite right with passive crossovers, and I have tried a few. I will build a First Watt active crossover and probably test this with a small 4x30w hypex class D (because I have one) or use my DIY First Watt class A amps (F6 and M2), that sound similar but not quite the same, or maybe build a second pair of Neurochrome Modulus-86s. My day to day Altec A5s seem to be more forgiving and sound fine with passive crossovers (although of course not the same with different crossovers). I have tried 3 different crossovers, and now prefer a Hiraga inspired crossover.
Just to correct a misunderstanding earlier in the thread, the Neurochrome Modulus-86 is a class AB amp, not class D. Inexpensive to build and quite good for its price
I'm going to try this on my Altec model 17s as I have never got them quite right with passive crossovers, and I have tried a few. I will build a First Watt active crossover and probably test this with a small 4x30w hypex class D (because I have one) or use my DIY First Watt class A amps (F6 and M2), that sound similar but not quite the same, or maybe build a second pair of Neurochrome Modulus-86s. My day to day Altec A5s seem to be more forgiving and sound fine with passive crossovers (although of course not the same with different crossovers). I have tried 3 different crossovers, and now prefer a Hiraga inspired crossover.
Just to correct a misunderstanding earlier in the thread, the Neurochrome Modulus-86 is a class AB amp, not class D. Inexpensive to build and quite good for its price
Marslo,
help me understand please, do you use RELs in lieu of the Avantgarde's own subs, or as a compliment?
I've been using Duo Omega G2 for 15 years, so I'd like to believe I have some insights into this issue.
A first watt F4 could be fun to try too. I love them as standard amplifiers (as I wrote earlier in the thread), but as pure 0db gain source followers, you can drive them directly from any other amplifier you own. They'll add current gain and remove the load of the drivers from your other amp. They sound beautiful, but are also very transparent and will mostly just pass the characteristics of the upstream amp or pre.I respect the sentiment of you horn owners that dislike different amp topologies. And I expect, as Morricab mentions above, that to successfully multiamp (passive or active) it should be done with similar or same sounding amplifiers regardless if one uses tube or sand amps.
I'm going to try this on my Altec model 17s as I have never got them quite right with passive crossovers, and I have tried a few. I will build a First Watt active crossover and probably test this with a small 4x30w hypex class D (because I have one) or use my DIY First Watt class A amps (F6 and M2), that sound similar but not quite the same, or maybe build a second pair of Neurochrome Modulus-86s. My day to day Altec A5s seem to be more forgiving and sound fine with passive crossovers (although of course not the same with different crossovers). I have tried 3 different crossovers, and now prefer a Hiraga inspired crossover.
Just to correct a misunderstanding earlier in the thread, the Neurochrome Modulus-86 is a class AB amp, not class D. Inexpensive to build and quite good for its price
I bought them to use in this manner with my 300b SETs up top and have the F4s on the bass (driven by the 300bs), but they ended up being so good that I sold my SETs and just used the F4s for everything.
Instead of. Me too I had Duo Omega G2 for 6 years and then Duo Mezzo XD for following 5 years. Pls share your thoughts.
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Then I have to agree with Leif, that subs need to be crossed at 120 Hz, if you cross it lower, you might experience "hole" in the upper bass, that will sound "lean" overall.
Could you explain what is that you hear with 231s and RELs that seems objectionable?
I did not try 231 subs yet. Just wanted something different and less expensive.
Now the crossover is set at around 110 Hz after I installed the upgraded Crossfire amp. I am more satisfied now than a month ago, the system is progessing.
Now the crossover is set at around 110 Hz after I installed the upgraded Crossfire amp. I am more satisfied now than a month ago, the system is progessing.
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@cal3713 I have the F4s on my radar, but there is so much happening in the Pass thread on diyaudio, I havent got to them yet. I just won a lottery there and have First Watt SE Sony VFET amp kits in transit and will build them first.
Have you tried using minidsp or similar as an experiment to see if you can live without any notch filters or other corrections (aside from hpf and lpf)?
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