Measuring power line noise with the TriField EM100, and the impressive effect of Shyunyata products

[VLS]

Outlet measurement of 17: no power conditioner involved.

C’mon Al, don’t settle! With just a bit more effort you can make it to zero! Or even negative!

 

[Al M.]

Yes it would probably cost you about $1000 see https://www.amazon.com/MuMETAL-Shielding-Flexible-Conduit-Length/dp/B017O6PXJ0

Yeah, I paid less than $ 100 for my wiring (they probably got the wire at their wholesale price). Bulk of price was labor costs. On the other hand, if you are full out on power, with expensive distributors/conditioners down the line, you might want to go to the expense. It will still be a fraction of those devices. Question is how much of a difference it makes.

 

[Kingrex]

If you use MC, you need 10x3. You phase the red green and use it as an isolated ground. If you dont, there is a ground loop between the metal case and ground wire as they provide parllel path.

 

[Kingsrule]

I have not tested speed controllers, but your comment indicates you are using a dimmer to control a fan. They are different technology. You need an actual speed controller.

I am talking with my panel manufacturer about filters specific to lights and motors that I would install at your service panel. Even though a Denali may provide significant improvement in some systems, I have also witnessed a properly implemented highly optimized power supply done right from grounds and service point, through the main panel, subpanel and to the rack negate the gains of a Denali.

I still find it a very backwards process to buy a Denali or Everest or any other unit, rather than focus on point source solutions, mitigating the negative impact at the offending device.

Long answer, your on the right path looking for a good speed controller. I will call some reps this weekend and see if any know of such a device. Unfortunately business has been so booming, and the race to the bottom so intense, quality is thrown out. Only price and speed of delivery are factored into production.

I can have robust industrial filters manufactured that would be installed at your panelboard. You would nipple it to your panel and route offending circuits through the filter. But a good speed controller should solve your issue.

Well I tried 2 different Lutron fan controllers and my fans (Modern Fan) still make the pulsing noise. I'm guessing its a 60cycle motor pulse but not sure. The noise is very bothersome. Anyone experience this and figured a solution?

 

[Kingrex]

Motors noise can be tricky. Sometimes you think its in the electricity, but its really in the air and emanating in the corner by your speaker. It just sounds like its the speaker. I have that at my house. I have walked over to the speaker to hear why its humming and the power is turned off to the stereo. Its a bathroom fan on the second floor coupling to floor joist and transmitting to a corner on my first floor.

I still have a Subzero that may be affecting my amps. BUT, since having my amps altered due to their poor performance, I have not heard the issue. Spoken another way, we don't want to admit the power supply and build topology of our equipment may be as such that it is easily influenced by certain power anomalies in your home.

If you dont want to investigate altering the PS in your gear, I can have a brick wall filter built that will be installed inline with the ceiling fan circuit. But if the issue is mechanical vibration from the fan yoke to a ceiling joist connection, which propagates either through more wood or air to where you speaker sits, no electrical filters will help.

 

[Kingsrule]

Motors noise can be tricky. Sometimes you think its in the electricity, but its really in the air and emanating in the corner by your speaker. It just sounds like its the speaker. I have that at my house. I have walked over to the speaker to hear why its humming and the power is turned off to the stereo. Its a bathroom fan on the second floor coupling to floor joist and transmitting to a corner on my first floor.

I still have a Subzero that may be affecting my amps. BUT, since having my amps altered due to their poor performance, I have not heard the issue. Spoken another way, we don't want to admit the power supply and build topology of our equipment may be as such that it is easily influenced by certain power anomalies in your home.

If you dont want to investigate altering the PS in your gear, I can have a brick wall filter built that will be installed inline with the ceiling fan circuit. But if the issue is mechanical vibration from the fan yoke to a ceiling joist connection, which propagates either through more wood or air to where you speaker sits, no electrical filters will help.

Hi Kingrex
All 3 fans make the pulsing noise (in 3 different rooms), and they are on 2 different circuits. Definitely electrical IMO. Not related to my gear. Maybe I need to get the Modern Fan Co. speed controller?

 

[Kingrex]

you get it.

Hi Kingrex
All 3 fans make the pulsing noise (in 3 different rooms), and they are on 2 different circuits. Definitely electrical IMO. Not related to my gear. Maybe I need to get the Modern Fan Co. speed controller?

Owe heck yes. I would definitely use their speed controller.

 

[allvinyl]

....
The point I am trying to make is I find point source filtration to be very effective and your leaving the audio power pure. Why filter your audio power if you don't have too. There is much that can be done to eliminate noise that is centered around proper infastrucre wiring and grounding. And filtration of devices at the source. Heat pumps and pool pumps can pull your power factor down. That is absolute lost energy. A Denali is not getting it back. But a bank of power factor correction capacitors in line with the pump loads will impact only that feeder to the motors and bring the phase angle back into position without damaging your audio power.

The Trifield meter, or Fluke 125B will tell you you have issues. But before you spend $14K on a Denali and power cord to feed it, did you consider having your electrical grounding optimized and looking at all the noise generators in your home first. That might end up being a $5k bill. And it might do a lot more than you think. Then try a Denali or other device. Consider this. A Denali will pretty much always change what you hear from your stereo. Improving your electrical infrastructure will pretty much always change what you hear from your Denali.

Hi - I am very interested in investigating your suggestion(s) on filtration and lost energy. I recently had a Daikin heat pump installed to service 3 air conditioning units. I am trying to understand what spec I need to get from the Daikin heat pump specs that I can use to do an initial power factor correction calculation.

Additionally, aside from dimmers what other appliances/devices do I need to examine in my home? I only have one dimmer on a kitchen light. I do have 2 freezers.

I also recently had a new electrical panel installed and they also implemented a new whole house grounding system.

I could absolutely see addressing these issues first and using good PCs to the wall and save investing in a Denali or Everest until after these foundational home power issues are addressed. It makes a lot sense to this layman. Thank you.

 

[Kingrex]

Hi - I am very interested in investigating your suggestion(s) on filtration and lost energy. I recently had a Daikin heat pump installed to service 3 air conditioning units. I am trying to understand what spec I need to get from the Daikin heat pump specs that I can use to do an initial power factor correction calculation.

Additionally, aside from dimmers what other appliances/devices do I need to examine in my home? I only have one dimmer on a kitchen light. I do have 2 freezers.

I also recently had a new electrical panel installed and they also implemented a new whole house grounding system.

I could absolutely see addressing these issues first and using good PCs to the wall and save investing in a Denali or Everest until after these foundational home power issues are addressed. It makes a lot sense to this layman. Thank you.

You have so much going on. New grounding, new panel, heat pumps. I doubt you need PFC because of a heat pump. A scope would tell you what is up. What I find more important is how the ground, panels and branch circuits are installed. I have never seen a measured amount of harmonics or sine wave angle change from updating the electrical infrastructure. But I have heard dramatic improvements when the wiring is done with very careful attention to detail.

Having said that, I was surprised how much noise is on the line in places like Florida. But that noise is from the street. Not the home. It's all the AC and fluorescent lights in the neighborhood.

If you have noise generating devices in your home, its best to isolate them in a particular panel and use a filter inline feeding that panel to filter the noise. Did your electricians take any measurements?

 

[allvinyl]

You have so much going on. New grounding, new panel, heat pumps. I doubt you need PFC because of a heat pump. A scope would tell you what is up. What I find more important is how the ground, panels and branch circuits are installed. I have never seen a measured amount of harmonics or sine wave angle change from updating the electrical infrastructure. But I have heard dramatic improvements when the wiring is done with very careful attention to detail.

Having said that, I was surprised how much noise is on the line in places like Florida. But that noise is from the street. Not the home. It's all the AC and fluorescent lights in the neighborhood.

If you have noise generating devices in your home, its best to isolate them in a particular panel and use a filter inline feeding that panel to filter the noise. Did your electricians take any measurements?

My 1963 ranch/rambler style home has 1 panel and I don't have the ability to separate the noise culprits to a separate filtered panel. I do plan to research electricians on experience before I have the 2 new lines installed.

No, I don't believe the electricians who installed the heat pump or the ones who upgraded the infrastructure took any measurements.

With the 2 new lines I will have access to 4 separate breakers/lines for my audio components.

 

[allvinyl]

You have so much going on. New grounding, new panel, heat pumps. I doubt you need PFC because of a heat pump. A scope would tell you what is up. What I find more important is how the ground, panels and branch circuits are installed. I have never seen a measured amount of harmonics or sine wave angle change from updating the electrical infrastructure. But I have heard dramatic improvements when the wiring is done with very careful attention to detail.

Having said that, I was surprised how much noise is on the line in places like Florida. But that noise is from the street. Not the home. It's all the AC and fluorescent lights in the neighborhood.

If you have noise generating devices in your home, its best to isolate them in a particular panel and use a filter inline feeding that panel to filter the noise. Did your electricians take any measurements?

I also meant to ask what measurements I should ask the electrician(s) to take? TIA...