Measuring power line noise with the TriField EM100, and the impressive effect of Shyunyata products
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I do. You can imagine as a manufacturer for the last 46 years we've had a lot of 'AC power conditioners' come through the shop. Michael Percy, who was a dealer of ours a long time ago before he started selling high end audio parts, clued me into the Elgars.
What kind of numbers should I be getting out of the Trifield, just plugging it into an outlet without any power conditioner. I just got one and want to figure out whether it is defective. I am getting close to or over the maximum number (19999) in my house circuits. I have two different panels. One shows over the maximum in different outlets and the other shows 14000-19000. Thanks, Larry
The decimal point in the display is a little hard to see - my guess you are seeing 199.99.
If that’s not the case, you have astonishingly noisy lines. Normal readings are ~200, with 20 being very quiet, 500 pretty noisy.
How all that manifests itself in SQ is system dependent.
Thanks. I think it is defective. I am getting the maximum number 1with four dashes (meaning over 19999) in many of my outlets. I had Art Kelm at the house a decade ago and he measured the line noise with his equipment. Nothing out of the ordinary. I haven't changed things in the electrical system since then. Larry
C719 | changlightspeed
This advanced powerline filter provides triple component isolation with two groups of highly filtered analog outlets. Available as a 200 ~ 250 VAC model. Most European style plugs (not outlets) available, contact your dealer for availability and pricing differences.
www.changlightspeed.com
Just as effective at reducing noise, absorbing voltage spikes from lightning, adding a 3D, and super quiet sound , in addition to power factor correction, and attached low inductance power cable.
Isolates between two power amps, and digital and analog components.
Not $5500 but about $1400 factory direct, built to order, from the cable company !
Works great in home theater ...brighter, clearer HDTV picture.
Trust me on this product. They have more expensive models if you think this one is too cheap.
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Dunno about that but the specs don't show how well it can attenuate the 5th harmonic that might be on the line.
One thing I found is that the Trifield measures only one leg of the power. So for my 512 Engineering Symmetrical Power Units, they don't capture the noise reduction, which between 20KHz and over 1GHz is over 90db. Not sure whether other power units are designed the same way. Larry
Do any regenerators, the Audioquest filter, or your Elgar, claim to reduce 5th harmonics that might be on the line?
That has not been measured, or discussed at all, in this thread.
Does the Elgar reduce harmonics on the line generated by fluoresent lights in the house? NO! Just shutting them off, along with light dimmers, is common knowledge.
I am just comparing the subjective effect of noise reduction in this thread to my own experience with the Chang LightSpeed product.
I guess you do not care about cost either.
As you admit you know nothing about the Chang products.
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I know that the Elgar and the PSAudio regernators can reduce or eliminate the 5th harmonic.
This has been mentioned on this thread before, but mostly by me. I do care about cost; quite often a used Elgar is less expensive than 'solutions' I've seen for high end audio that are less effective. I guess what I'm saying is I don't like flushing $$$$ down the loo.
Fluorescent lights can and do make noise (although dimmers tend to make more). The Elgar can eliminate that noise. I think the PSAudio can too.
I didn't know about the Lightspeed, so I went to their website. I was hoping to see more explicit specifications; hence my prior comment; I still feel like I don't know anything about their product.
The 5th harmonic is one of the more pesky problems have to do with noise on the AC line. If you've ever heard 'diode noise' come and go (and sometimes audible from the equipment itself, rather than the loudspeakers), this is often a symptom of the 5th harmonic. Fluke Instruments has published extensive data on this topic.
I am just suggesting Audiophiles try the Chang products.
I am very impressed.
Does the Shyunyata filter or PS audio regenerator have any specs about the 5th harmonic? NO!
I have used PurePower AC regenerators and the Chang products are superior IMO.
Regenerators do not generate a perfect sine wave with zero distortion. They also have a warm up because of the amplifier inside.
The Chang product designer does not want to reveal all their proprietary designs like many companies.
Does Shyunata explain what the QR/BB technology is?
The Elgar only effects the incoming line, not interaction between sources of analog and digital components, or other AC distortion , EMI/RFI, and noise originating within the house after the incoming AC.
Does it have power factor correction which is very important?
The Elgar you talk about is obsolete and no longer made. It was made under the name Running Spring and discontinued several years ago.
I am very impressed.
Does the Shyunyata filter or PS audio regenerator have any specs about the 5th harmonic? NO!
I have used PurePower AC regenerators and the Chang products are superior IMO.
Regenerators do not generate a perfect sine wave with zero distortion. They also have a warm up because of the amplifier inside.
The Chang product designer does not want to reveal all their proprietary designs like many companies.
Does Shyunata explain what the QR/BB technology is?
The Elgar only effects the incoming line, not interaction between sources of analog and digital components, or other AC distortion , EMI/RFI, and noise originating within the house after the incoming AC.
Does it have power factor correction which is very important?
The Elgar you talk about is obsolete and no longer made. It was made under the name Running Spring and discontinued several years ago.
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To the latter- Yes. To the former, the Elgar reacts to 'other AC distortion , EMI/RFI, and noise originating within the house after the incoming AC.' It employs a feedback loop and is comparing its output to a 60 low distortion sine wave oscillator. The resulting output is a sine wave with THD of less than 0.25% under full load.
Naturally nothing will have zero distortion. I suspect the warmup time depends on the regenerator. Newer ones use class D amplifiers which have no warmup time at all.
The point here is you really do need active circuitry to have an actually clean AC output.
Apologize, I was off on a road trip to Asheville. Love the Blue Ridge Mountains.
I do, decidedly. So on the playback with the Denali v2 supporting the speaker field-coil power supplies and the power amps, the v2 seems to offer for me a much more convincing rendition of a performance, almost any performance. I hesitate to express it as soundstage though there are spacial elements that are more vivid and real in their presentation then when plugged directly into the wall. Dynamics seem more agile, faster, more detailed, yet the overall performance is more relaxed, less effort filled if that makes any sense. The sound also markedly comes more from the room then the individual speaker cabinets. Many aspects of it seem to suggest less inherent noise, a smoother delivery that lets you focus on timbre or the tone colors and textures rather than just simple notes. It’s a tactile thing. Less grain, better mid bass body, more air.
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Another thing I missed mentioning. The increase in the depth of stage with the v2 in place was rather huge. A real and appreciated surprise. 
Had for my system a 10 AWG power line from breaker box to outlet installed, to replace 12 AWG line. It's 10/2 MC cable, shielded:
Picture shows part of it along basement ceiling.
Outlet from wall is Shunyata:
https://shunyata.com/products/accessories/sr-z1-outlets/
The Trifield measurement at the outlet was 39 one day, 40 another other day, down from 90. The electrician also exchanged the kitchen dimmer light switch to a regular on/off (transformer ripped out). The reading with kitchen light on went, instead from previously 90 to 110, from 39 to 39. All that with second floor air conditioning blasting.
Today measured again: value at Shunyata wall outlet is 17 (!!). Turned kitchen light on, 17. Turned air conditioning on, still 17. I guess because on this cool day nobody uses an air conditioner, the street line is much cleaner.
Outlet measurement of 17: no power conditioner involved.
Picture shows part of it along basement ceiling.
Outlet from wall is Shunyata:
https://shunyata.com/products/accessories/sr-z1-outlets/
The Trifield measurement at the outlet was 39 one day, 40 another other day, down from 90. The electrician also exchanged the kitchen dimmer light switch to a regular on/off (transformer ripped out). The reading with kitchen light on went, instead from previously 90 to 110, from 39 to 39. All that with second floor air conditioning blasting.
Today measured again: value at Shunyata wall outlet is 17 (!!). Turned kitchen light on, 17. Turned air conditioning on, still 17. I guess because on this cool day nobody uses an air conditioner, the street line is much cleaner.
Outlet measurement of 17: no power conditioner involved.
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Very nice Al. FYI, that metal conduit for your new line can be had in a mumetal version. How is the grip of the outlet?
Thanks, Ack. Didn't know about the mumetal version, must be special product. Only heard about, and saw, the aluminum tubing.
Just googled, I suppose you would have to buy the tubing separately (would in my case have to be 42 feet), and then put your wire through, but I may be mistaken. Couldn't find prices, probably $$$.
Excellent. At least as good as on back of my isolation transformers, just checked. Metal contact surface, according to Shunyata, is supposed to be particularly generous.
Yes it would probably cost you about $1000 see https://www.amazon.com/MuMETAL-Shielding-Flexible-Conduit-Length/dp/B017O6PXJ0
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