Can we know why you consider that OP18-OP21 Cybershaft clock would smoke Mutec? IMHO we are far from understanding the true reason of why super clocks improve DAC subjective sound quality. What exactly defines a "better" clock?
Good question. We really don’t know what contributes to a good clock. The experience so far with Cybershaft is better accuracy gives better sound. OP20 is clearly better than OP17 which in turn better than OP14. This is what I personally auditioned.
I am convinced that better accuracy will reduce jitters in DAC but the exact physics behind it is beyond my understanding. As an audiophile, listening is believing. No doubt, OP20 will smoke Mutec.
Good question. We really don’t know what contributes to a good clock. The experience so far with Cybershaft is better accuracy gives better sound. OP20 is clearly better than OP17 which in turn better than OP14. This is what I personally auditioned.
I am convinced that better accuracy will reduce jitters in DAC but the exact physics behind it is beyond my understanding. As an audiophile, listening is believing. No doubt, OP20 will smoke Mutec.
The thing is better power cord, better clock cable and better isolation footers all give better sound. So there is more to just accuracy. OP20 with stock power cable and cheap clock cable probably won't beat OP17 with good supporting gears. This is a very interesting toy.
I bet both can me measured, when you measure the complete clock, not just the XO module.
Vibrations reduce the XO module performance. That is a known fact. Levinson used suspended clocks in ML31 to improve their performance back in the 90s.
IMHO, if we do not try to discuss it, the thread is simply the usual debate on mine is better than yours, unobtainium always wins ... But precise data points can be illustrative and interesting.
The exact phase noise graphs for many clocks are available to study for everyone.
Unlike any other audio component, clocks are pretty easy devices to measure (if you have $200.000 for the right gear that is). And unlike any other audio component, there is very little mumbo-jumbo behind them - it is basicly all science.
Try the Mutec Ref 10 on your Vivaldi clock - you will thank me later.
The exact phase noise graphs for many clocks are available to study for everyone.
Unlike any other audio component, clocks are pretty easy devices to measure (if you have $200.000 for the right gear that is). And unlike any other audio component, there is very little mumbo-jumbo behind them - it is basically all science.
Try the Mutec Ref 10 on your Vivaldi clock - you will thank me later.
Yes, phase noise graphs are available - it is very old science. The mumbo-jumbo is the correlation between phase noise and subjective sound quality - science tells you that at the levels we are debating these small differences in phase noise do not affect sound quality. IMHO we can not use science when it pleases us and discard it when it does confirm our beliefs. Otherwise we are playing the scientist and the frog ...
I would have tried the Mutec REF 10 since long if I could get it to try - but not everyone with whom I have discussed this matter was favorable to its use with the DCS Vivaldi. Anyway my main concern is this discussion is the Cybershaft OP20 - is it so much better than the REF 10?
Yes, phase noise graphs are available - it is very old science. The mumbo-jumbo is the correlation between phase noise and subjective sound quality - science tells you that at the levels we are debating these small differences in phase noise do not affect sound quality. IMHO we can not use science when it pleases us and discard it when it does confirm our beliefs. Otherwise we are playing the scientist and the frog ...
I will not even try to persuade you, that better clock can improve sound quality and how it is even audible. It is a bit like persuading an EE with zero audio experience that cables can sound different ... while 'they shouldn't'.
I have yet to find a person that had played with various clocks, that found that a clock with a higher phase noise sounded better, than a clock with lower phase noise (both external). If you read online about that somehwere - I would me more than happy to read that too.
Like most people here, I am just trying to pass my experiences with external clocks, that is it. Normally, I would add YEMV (Your Experience May Vary), but it seems that you have ... none
I will not even try to persuade you, that better clock can improve sound quality and how it is even audible. It is a bit like persuading an EE with zero audio experience that cables can sound different ... while 'they shouldn't'.
I have yet to find a person that had played with various clocks, that found that a clock with a higher phase noise sounded better, than a clock with lower phase noise (both external). If you read online about that somehwere - I would me more than happy to read that too.
Like most people here, I am just trying to pass my experiences with external clocks, that is it. Normally, I would add YEMV (Your Experience May Vary), but it seems that you have ... none
It seems to me you are completely misunderstanding the argument - and the reference to EEs and cables is ridiculous in our discussion. You were the one who brought science to the thread, I criticized such option.
There is a large difference between sounding better and sounding different - and yes, I have large experience with the Vivaldi clock, that is just a large external clock. It has many settings, including the possibility of adding some controlled jitter. I have played with them for long. So I know what an external clock can do. Long ago I bought some expensive external clock boards and modified CD's myself - great times, I have participated several times in comparative listenings with the several Esoteric clocks.
The debate on external clocks is not new. There are hundreds of different opinions on it, including posts by WBF members in other forums, but we are not carrying a poll. Thanks for passing your experience, my main interest was the Cybershaft OP20 sound, not its phase noise.
My experience is that a very small number of single isolated experiences in such situations of the so called "small differences" are not enough to create firm rules. Surely YMMV.
It seems to me you are completely misunderstanding the argument - and the reference to EEs and cables is ridiculous in our discussion. You were the one who brought science to the thread, I criticized such option.
There is a large difference between sounding better and sounding different - and yes, I have large experience with the Vivaldi clock, that is just a large external clock. It has many settings, including the possibility of adding some controlled jitter. I have played with them for long. So I know what an external clock can do. Long ago I bought some expensive external clock boards and modified CD's myself - great times, I have participated several times in comparative listenings with the several Esoteric clocks.
The debate on external clocks is not new. There are hundreds of different opinions on it, including posts by WBF members in other forums, but we are not carrying a poll. Thanks for passing your experience, my main interest was the Cybershaft OP20 sound, not its phase noise.
My experience is that a very small number of single isolated experiences in such situations of the so called "small differences" are not enough to create firm rules. Surely YMMV.
I have similar experience and speculation like yours before I heard OP20. OP20 completely changed my perception of what a good clock can do to the sound.
I have gone through the journey of adding Vivaldi clock to my system. Wow, good improvement. Then I added cheap GPSDO 10M clock to Vivaldi clock, also there was some improvement. Yes, you can say it sounded different but in a more present way.
Then I brought Antelope 10MX, it was much better than GPSDO. When Cybershaft OP14 was available, I tried one but was not happy with it. Until OP20, it really was two, three classes above anything I heard before. This time, it is better, not different.
You just have to read the report from anyone who heard OP20, no one was not completely floored. It is unfortunate that OP20/21 are in such short supply, not many people have a chance to hear it. Trust me, if you can get hold of one, do it. Until then, you will still not believe what we say.
Can we know why you consider that OP18-OP21 Cybershaft clock would smoke Mutec? IMHO we are far from understanding the true reason of why super clocks improve DAC subjective sound quality. What exactly defines a "better" clock?
Lower phase noise measured at expected measurement points, better Allan Variation (measure of frequency stability, short-term stability is most important for musical playback), all determine the effective time jitter of the clock output and therefore the circuit. The lower the time jitter value, the better for the overall musical playback as I understand it.
All Esoteric devices work best the "Low" setting and even syncs faster.
I cannot tell you for sure how to set for DCS but would start wit the "Low" signal strength setting, see how fast it syncs
and then try "High" and time that. If it syncs faster with "low" like Esoteric gear does, then that's the right setting.
Don't know the other DCS config setting question but someone on this forum is sure to help....
Agree with SC's advice. See which works best.
Thw TTL setting is for TTl clocks and the AC setting is for AC coupled clocks.
I am not sure in which category the Cybershaft falls, maybe the manual contains that info, and if so that's the answer. If not try both to see which works.
More details in the Vivaldi Clock manual which if you do not have one is available on the DCS website.
Hope that does the trick.
If you have a Cybershaft with clock distribution with 3 outputs, that should be a TTL squarewave output otherwise, it will be a sine wave.
A TTL output works in most cases in audio devices where a sine wave is mentioned or recommended as most digital receiver chips will also accept TTL inputs as they have internal inbuilt TTL conversions anyway.
You may need to set the input setting in the dcs clock.
