Reality is Cruel : Cybershaft new Ultimate OCXO 10M Clocks Shootout OP20 vs OP17

[justubes]

What you description seems to point to what i hear from a Rubidium based references.

OCXO based or Cybershafts for me sounds smoother gentler, more laidback with more roundness in the lower regions.

I feel it may be more a system and cable matching artifacts resulting in the final enjoyment, notwithstanding that lower phase noise do indeed have prove superior when all other aspects that affect the final result have been taken care of.

 

[CKKeung]

Four friends of mine in Hong Kong recently got OP21 10M clocks from Cybershaft.
OP21 is available only recently. I guess its availability depends on how good the ocxo modules Cybershaft can obtain.

I compared this OP21 vs an OP20 at a friend's system last night. The clocked components were SOtM switch & SOtM tx-USBultra. DAC was Chord Blu2+DAVE.

The result was not unexpected. OP20 was surpassed by OP21 in every sonic aspects, not a big diff but clearly audible!

 

[bodhifile]

Does anybody have a recommendation for Cybershaft Ultimate isolation footers? What are you using? Thanks!

 

[TLi]

Does anybody have a recommendation for Cybershaft Ultimate isolation footers? What are you using? Thanks!

I have tried many different footers for my Cybershaft clock. Basically, the result is the same as they are used in other components.

I now three Stillpoints Ultra 5 for my OP20.

 

[oldmustang]

Does anybody have a recommendation for Cybershaft Ultimate isolation footers? What are you using? Thanks!

I'm using three inverted Stillpoints SS under my OP21. I confess I haven't tried any other isolation or vibration control devices since I had the Stillpoints already.

Steve

 

[SCAudiophile]

I'm using three inverted Stillpoints SS under my OP21. I confess I haven't tried any other isolation or vibration control devices since I had the Stillpoints already.

Steve

I have used Stillpoint Ultra SS both attached on one clock that he built where I could change footers and the rest, including my current clock using Ultra SS on Ultra Bases. This is 'the' killer combination from what I can tell. There be others from other providers as well like this to consider but for my money, Ultra SS with Ultra Bases is the combination I will stick with...

 

[bodhifile]

Does anyone have any info on if the Cybershaft Ultimate's are being discontinued? It looks like they are working on a newer model possibly?

 

[SCAudiophile]

Does anyone have any info on if the Cybershaft Ultimate's are being discontinued? It looks like they are working on a newer model possibly?

Not discontinued per se, out of stock I was told yesterday. There may be news in October but no detail other than that was given.

 

[CKKeung]

Many audiophiles in Hong Kong are moving over from Mutec Ref10 to the Cybershaft camp.
The latter offers models of higher spec & better sonic performance and the current editions are as user-friendly & versatile as Ref10.

Mutec has a Strike-back now.
You can contact them and ask for a special op20 model. They will install a special order op20 ocxo module on the Ref10. Current Ref10 can be sent to them for upgrade too.

However, not unexpectedly, the price is ...

 

[justubes]

Hi CK,

Can you share where this information is from.

Is it termed the Empyreal class, there does not seem to have reference to this at at phase noise equivalent of option 20 or better.

Thanks?

 

[CKKeung]

Please directly contact Mutec for the details and prices.

Several audiophiles in HK have placed orders and one of them got this special Ref10 last week.

Here is the label on the box.
It's called Mutec Ref10 SE-120 !

 

[justubes]

Thanks CK!

looks like your group will inevitably be doing as shootout sometime soon comparing the op20 , standard Ref 10 and SE!

I will contact mutec on the upgrade.

 

[CKKeung]

That SE-120 owner is not in my audiophile group.
But I know that their group will compare it to a Cybershaft op20, after the SE-120 has been switched on and worked for 7 -10 days.
Will update WBF on their findings once known to me.

 

[justubes]

Wow, have emailed Mutec and tried calling to find out more on this SE version.

No one, nor the worldwide dealers have anything listed on this!

Hong Kong is definately on the forefront in terms of consumers on all things digital in the audio market right now!

That would be most interesting. I am just making a wild guess that it has been some time after the release of the Ref10 and possible with more time for manufacturer to enable selection of clocks(maybe at a fee).

I wonder if the production process of the OCXO clocks remains the same, some lucky owners of the Ref10 may actually find themselves unknowingly owing one which has a higher spec clock that came with the unit.

The yield of that small percentage exceptional low phase noise clock (Maybe a few %) out of the thousands produced is quite standard in any manufacturing processes.

Do you know if the unit comes with an individual test result like Kenji of Cybershaft provides for every unit sold.

Of more interest lately of my readings into research papers published phase noise, is how much a extremely low phase noise clock is subject to vibration and power supply noise has led me to think that the power supply transformer should be in a separate enclosures as clocks are so very sensitive to vibrations that like the earth's natural vibration of 7.83Hz (Schumann frequency) will negatively impact the phase noise of all clocks.

I am still trying to understand what was relayed to me when i purchased my Cybershaft unit that the phase noise of the clock should match the inherent phase noise embedded in the recordings itself. So having a lower phase noise clock above say a less than stellar recording would not provide any real gains or improvements.

 

[justubes]

It would be of interest keeping true and reviving this thread, in that the op17 and op20 comparision will now include the new Ref10 SE120.

I wonder if your experience so far is unequivocally, that a lower phase noise clock always brings a similar greater sense of naturalness, timbre and smoothness with all the usual improvements of higher resolution throughout the audio spectrum, it has been my experience that along with this also brings about an incremental degree of softness or gentleness or smoothness can make for a less alive and exciting sound presentation especially with more uptempo music like rock and pop.

I found a need to balance out this smoothness with the correct amount of hardness to strike a balance on all types of music. This is not to mean the sound is hard sounding in the least bit.

 

[justubes]

I have ordered and on the way, my Mutec OP20 OCXO. The OCXOs unit test specs are also exceptional!

From the measurements at 1hz matches the Cybershaft OP20, but the phase noise at 10 and 100hz at -163 shows a -15db lower reading! Overall jitter at 13FS.

Meaning a much steeper downward curve, meanung that the cumulative improvements at each increasing hz will benefit.

There should be more focus on comparisions besides at the 1hz value even for units which are below the op20 level, this may prove beneficial in furthering these test and comparisions.

I guess each unit that can be selected will have different results and you need to check again with Mutec as and when units can be available.

 

[SCAudiophile]

The Mutec OP20 has some incredible specs for sure; it will be interesting to see just how these clocks compare.

+1 on the thought that all value (1, 10, 100) should all be considered and compared as should the Allen performance of the
OCXO module (often tested independently) as well as the over clock device itself once fully assembled. These units
(Mutec, Cybershaft, top Esoteric 10Mhz Grandioso G1, CH Precision and the Sforzato reference clock) all have such
rarefied performance that it might b impossible to tell which one is best and it may also be system-dependent.

 

[bodhifile]

were you comparing specs to the newest ones? http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/op20a.html

 

[justubes]

I have compared the specs posted here, now comparing the 10hz noise, the new cybershaft op20a and 21 both have a similar 10hz phase noise.

What i am seeing by Mutec shows a -9db lower phase noise at 10hz. Cybershaft dies not atate the 100hz on the website, but wipl be avaialbe in in each test certificate.

Considering the possible measurement equipment differences, given the same base measurement at 1hz, the corresponding curve at higher Hz values points to the Mutec measuring better.

So if say comparing 2 ocxo's, a op14 with lower phase noise up to 100hz may well sound better than a op 16 specimen, which has a overall higher noise between 2hz to 100hz.

So in summary, many factors exist and with the fact that no 2 ocxos test exactly the same, each result sonically can never be equal.

As mentioned, do not overlook cable, isolation and powersupply differences. They will be huge sonically, these differences are possibly as large as comparing 2 ocxo's with a few db difference at 1 hz.

I cannot understand the interpretation of Allen performance.

 

[justubes]

I have looked at the new specs which is improved, however, Mutec op20 ocxo still shows a -7db better at 10 hz over the op20a and op21.

Cybershaft does not publish the 100hz and will need reference to the full test results of the op20a/ op21.

CEO of Mutec, Chris informed me that their Ocxos have excellent phase noise at 10hz, 100hz up to 1000hz and reaches -169db at 1000hz, which compared to even to the Rakon HSO 14, which is the replacement of the Oscilloquartz BVA8607 (option L) which maxes out at -145db at 1000hz.

This came as a pleasant and welcomed surprise that it is -25db lower at 1000hz compared to the these "industry" best ocxo's!

Mutec has something very special of an OCXO indeed!

I will ask Chis if this also applies to their standard option when we meet up next week in Berlin.

This may have superior overall sonic implications than just -1 to 2 db lower phase noise at 1hz, but starts to drop off even more significantly after that point.

It could be concluded that Mutecs op20 OCXO may certainly have the best overall broadband phase noise results over the entire audio band.

I do not have the Allen variance results to compare.