Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

Thanks to team Taiko and Emile himself performing the update!

To my considerable surprise, now roon sounds better here.
For some reason, XDMS somehow lacks dynamics, excitement now.
I wonder what might got wrong.
No need to go back to the sw before the update, as roon is now pretty listenable and should improve further with the arrival of my Taiko router & dcd. To be replaced with XDMS NSM, some day, ascending to even higher sound quality, no doubt.

A few dumb questions, sorry for that.
1, how do I find the Extreme teamviewer codes?
2, disabling other roon cores: even my blood tv set appears in roon settings, audio. Should I disable my ipad? Or is it necessary to have an enabled ipad to control roon in the Extreme?
3, in the XDMS settings there is logout/restart/shutdown. Extreme restart is equivalent to restart from Extreme front button.
Should I restart XDMS and roon here?

One last remark: while my t+a dac with included streamer isn’t bad, I did need the Taiko extreme, switch and continuously developing software to achieve emotional content from a digital source. Something I cannot thank enough for.

Hi @engadin ,

1. See section 9.2 in the Extreme's manual: Extreme manual
2. No this only applies to actual Ron server cores.
3. yes

 

[SwissTom]

1, how do I find the Extreme teamviewer codes?

https://taikoaudio.com/taiko-2020/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/210203-Taiko-Audio-Extreme-Manual_v00_15.x22069.pdf?v=1ee0bf89c5d1

Section 9.2 (page 23)

Hope it helps.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[Taiko Audio]

@engadin , I just noticed your signature containing a quite elaborate network setup:

"swisscom internet box standard with Ferrum Hypsos power supply (SR purple fuse), Wireworld platinum ethernet cable, Ediscreation switch extreme (SR purple), Sablon ethernet cable, Taiko switch with Sean Jacobs mini arc6 dc4 (SR master fuse), Taiko extreme (SR m)"

Something which might be worth trying is to connect your swisscom internet box directly to the Taiko switch.

 

[simorag]

Another data point after receiving the update (thanks @Christiaan Punter !).

I am using XDMS, will try Roon later.

I have revisited several of my reference tracks over the last couple of hours, but what I have noticed from the get-go was an improvement of spaciousness, resolution, layering of sounds.

For example, the orchestral tutti in the disc below (one of my favorite Mahler performances), can become overwhelmingly congested, but here is handled with an almost aristocratic composure and poise. Dynamic swings are conveyed in an effortless, and therefore even more viscerally affecting, way.

Bass, both percussive and fretted, is more articulated and richer at the same time (confirmed by a typical reaction: heart pounding ).

​

Also in this other desert-island recording, the spatial aspect of the rendition is what has captured my attention since the first notes of the Ich Habe Genug (a moving masterwork that healed me emotionally in some challenging times), but then I started noticing another side of the new presentation I am hearing from my system, which seems due to a combination of a more nuanced and more embodied characterization of the vocals frequency range.

For lack of better words, I'd call this side a humanistic gestalt uplift.

​

I am thankful to @Taiko Audio for relentlessly improving my connection with music, by perfecting an already outstanding product and consistently expanding its ecosystem. Please keep doing that!

 

[engadin]

@engadin , I just noticed your signature containing a quite elaborate network setup:

"swisscom internet box standard with Ferrum Hypsos power supply (SR purple fuse), Wireworld platinum ethernet cable, Ediscreation switch extreme (SR purple), Sablon ethernet cable, Taiko switch with Sean Jacobs mini arc6 dc4 (SR master fuse), Taiko extreme (SR m)"

Something which might be worth trying is to connect your swisscom internet box directly to the Taiko switch.

Thanks for having a look!
Before I got the Taiko switch, the Ediscreation switch had made a very beneficial impact.
I will try removing the Ediscreation switch from the pathway to Taiko switch.
There is also a lowly Netgear GS108E switch BEFORE the Swisscom internet box, distributing internet to my and three more flats in this very old Engadin house. This Netgear switch benefitted from power supply upgrades, too.

Just took out the (pretty good!) Ediscreation silent switch extreme.
Casual listening: XDMS is much improved, beating roon again.
Oh.
Had it been more exciting once before? Not sure, maybe.
Yello makes you want to dance, again
I will stay that way and wait for router, dcd, NSM to come …

So it is
Netgear gs108e distribution to 3 and my flat -
Swisscom internet box- Sablon lan cable - Taiko switch - dac cable - Taiko Extreme

But the Swisscom box still feeds the Ediscreation, which distributes to
- tv
- internet to my wife‘s home office, laptop running 24/7 for pharma studies

Should I plug tv and home office into Swisscom internet box as well?
Perhaps I could replace the measly Netgear with the Ediscreation.

Does the front knob reset of the Taiko include restarts of roon and XDMS, too, or should this better be done with the XDMS settings?

Sorry for even more dumb questions and thanks again for your help!
Cheers, Ulrich

 

[Taiko Audio]

Just took out the (pretty good!) Ediscreation silent switch extreme.
Casual listening: XDMS is much improved, beating roon again.

Happy to hear that helped!

But the Swisscom box still feeds the Ediscreation, which distributes to
- tv
- internet to my wife‘s home office, laptop running 24/7 for pharma studies

Should I plug tv and home office into Swisscom internet box as well?
Perhaps I could replace the measly Netgear with the Ediscreation.

The outcome of that is hard to predict, it would definitely be interesting to just try that, although it's now in "parallel" in stead of in "series", it would be very interesting to see if that still influences your performance.

Same for replacing the Netgear with your Ediscreation, it will then effectively be in series again, although separated by your Swisscom.

If you're willing please do try and report back, very useful information.

Does the front knob reset of the Taiko include restarts of roon and XDMS, too, or should this better be done with the XDMS settings?

Sorry for even more dumb questions and thanks again for your help!

No such thing as a dumb question!

The front know restarts the whole server, that then automatically restarts Roon and/or XDMS too.

In the XDMS settings you can either restart the whole server, which is the same as using the front button, or you can restart just the XDMS/Roon applications (services).

 

[engadin]

The outcome of that is hard to predict, it would definitely be interesting to just try that, although it's now in "parallel" in stead of in "series", it would be very interesting to see if that still influences your performance.

Same for replacing the Netgear with your Ediscreation, it will then effectively be in series again, although separated by your Swisscom.

If you're willing please do try and report back, very useful information.

I did try and
connected Swisscom box to tv, home office
disconnected lan wire to Ediscreation
switched off Ediscreation

No Ediscreation and having the Swisscom box do all the switching (if this is the reason?)
- injected some slight boredom
- reduced energy in transients and bass impact
- made no easily discernible pros

So I put the Ediscreation back, feeding it from the Swisscom box, connecting tv, home office, again.
I did not try replacing the Netgear with the Ediscreation, doing the switching BEFORE my Swisscom box.
Maybe I should give this a try, maybe with the Netgear doing it‘s switch thing AFTER the Swisscom box.
I would expect the Ediscreation to be much better in the place of the Netgear, before Swisscom box and handling music signal,
while the Netgear might be enough to distribute things AFTER the Swisscom box.

At least this is my simplistic view of these things which might be fundamentally wrong

 

[Taiko Audio]

I did try and
connected Swisscom box to tv, home office
disconnected lan wire to Ediscreation
switched off Ediscreation

No Ediscreation and having the Swisscom box do all the switching (if this is the reason?)
- injected some slight boredom
- reduced energy in transients and bass impact
- made no easily discernible pros

So I put the Ediscreation back, feeding it from the Swisscom box, connecting tv, home office, again.
I did not try replacing the Netgear with the Ediscreation, doing the switching BEFORE my Swisscom box.
Maybe I should give this a try, maybe with the Netgear doing it‘s switch thing AFTER the Swisscom box.
I would expect the Ediscreation to be much better in the place of the Netgear, before Swisscom box and handling music signal,
while the Netgear might be enough to distribute things AFTER the Swisscom box.

At least this is my simplistic view of these things which might be fundamentally wrong

Only one way to find out

 

[John T]

Another data point after receiving the update (thanks @Christiaan Punter !).

I am using XDMS, will try Roon later.

I have revisited several of my reference tracks over the last couple of hours, but what I have noticed from the get-go was an improvement of spaciousness, resolution, layering of sounds.

For example, the orchestral tutti in the disc below (one of my favorite Mahler performances), can become overwhelmingly congested, but here is handled with an almost aristocratic composure and poise. Dynamic swings are conveyed in an effortless, and therefore even more viscerally affecting, way.

Bass, both percussive and fretted, is more articulated and richer at the same time (confirmed by a typical reaction: heart pounding ).

View attachment 120576​

Also in this other desert-island recording, the spatial aspect of the rendition is what has captured my attention since the first notes of the Ich Habe Genug (a moving masterwork that healed me emotionally in some challenging times), but then I started noticing another side of the new presentation I am hearing from my system, which seems due to a combination of a more nuanced and more embodied characterization of the vocals frequency range.

For lack of better words, I'd call this side a humanistic gestalt uplift.

View attachment 120577​

I am thankful to @Taiko Audio for relentlessly improving my connection with music, by perfecting an already outstanding product and consistently expanding its ecosystem. Please keep doing that!

@simorag Simone, is John Eliot Gardiner's (Ich Habe Genug) close to Desert Island's?

 

[simorag]

@simorag Simone, is John Eliot Gardiner's (Ich Habe Genug) close to Desert Island's?

Hi John, sure you can hardly go wrong with Gardiner's Bach!

However what gives me the shivers from the recording above is bass Jan Opalach deep moving voice and interpretation, a mix of comfort and despair which is hard to describe.

 

[Taiko Audio]

We're calling it a day again. Quite a lot of systems updated today!

Resume tomorrow 9AM CEST!

 

[John T]

Hi John, sure you can hardly go wrong with Gardiner's Bach!

However what gives me the shivers from the recording above is bass Jan Opalach deep moving voice and interpretation, a mix of comfort and depair which is hard to describe.

Listening now...Gripping! Thank You Simone...

 

[ctydwn]

Repeat of the announcement for those who missed it:

Update availability announcement for all Extreme servers:

It's been a hectic 72 hours here at Taiko HQ but I'm happy to be able to announce the availability of a software update to address the changes brought by the much discussed latest 1353 build of Roon software, and XDMS.

You can now reach out to support@taikoaudio.com to request your Extreme to be updated. You will be served faster if you include teamviewer codes, preferably directly into your Extreme, and use "Roon update request" as the subject of your e-mail, the update process itself takes anywhere between 2 minutes and 30 minutes depending on how fast we'll be able identify the nature of your support request and to actually teamview into your Extreme.

This update does not only boost the sound quality of Roon build 1353 but it also includes an improvement for XDMS. It applies to ALL Extreme server setups, with or without the Extreme network card, switch, router and/or dc distributor, running Roon 1353, XDMS or both.

This update does not include the previously announced "NSM" upgrade for XDMS, it adjusts the Extreme operating system to work more efficiently with the current version of XDMS.

For Roon it both increases sound quality back to where it was before the 1353 release, and according to us and a few early beta testers, even beyond where we were with build 1311, but also improves the interface responsiveness. 1353 is, in our humble opinion, actually a superior release over earlier builds, it just operates in a different way which requires a change to how our operating system handles it's new process flow.

Now there are some caveats, it does appear to have an increased sensitivity to other Roon cores/endpoints in your network. If you own the Extreme router this still applies as we allow Roon traffic to pass through the router. We will need to have a good think on how to approach this in the future. For now we will have a firmware update available shortly to address the Wi-Fi disabling when being "pushed" out by other Access Points with much stronger transmission power. The 1352 interface has a few responsiveness issues still, regularly closing and reopening the remote app helps with that, I assume this will be fixed in a near future Roon update.

The bottom line is, if maximum sound quality is desired, you should shut down any other Roon cores/Endpoints in your home..

We expect further improvements in Roon sound quality and remote performance with undoubtedly upcoming Roon fixes and reduction in what appears to be extensive debug logging to an otherwise quite nice release!

For XDMS, NSM is still to follow, which is a huge undertaking as it requires a complete rewrite of years of coding, so please try to exercise patience on this, meanwhile with this update you'll have a very nice sonic upgrade to XDMS which may equal the actual uplift NSM brings on it's own.

Khyle, Ed (if available) and Christiaan will be handling most of the upgrades today/tomorrow, I'll be headed off to a Sting concert in Germany later today but will return for the weekend to personally upgrade as many systems as possible, I'm confident we'll have most people up to date before next week.

As always we'd appreciate your honest feedback on this update, it helps us to evaluate our process and if we're headed in the right sonical direction.

P.S. Please try to provide our support team with TeamViewer codes of the Extreme itself, that will significantly reduce the load on our support team.

Incredible Team Taiko. Cannot wait to get home for the potential update Tuesday.

How was the Sting concert!?!? So glad Taiko saved the Extreme audio world curveball this week in under 72 hours and Emile still got to hopefully enjoy his full, what sounds like, awesome weekend. Hoping Sting has an Extreme in at least one of his systems.

 

[steve williams]

Incredible Team Taiko. Cannot wait to get home for the potential update Tuesday.

How was the Sting concert!?!? So glad Taiko saved the Extreme audio world curveball this week in under 72 hours and Emile still got to hopefully enjoy his full, what sounds like, awesome weekend. Hoping Sting has an Extreme in at least one of his systems.

I told Emile that he might have seen Sting live in concert in Germany but I had Sting performing live in my listening room singing Fields of Gold I felt I could close my eyes and thought Sting was there and I could reach out and touch him after the Roon patch was done

 

[Taiko Audio]

Good morning!

We're resuming applying updates again. Send your update request to support@taikoaudio.com including teamviewer access codes. It would be helpful is you update your Roon installation to 1353 prior to requesting an update which saves us the time it takes doing that for you.

Please try to provide our support team with TeamViewer codes of the Extreme itself, that will significantly reduce the load on our support team (which consists of only me today). If you struggle accessing the Extreme's desktop please include the Extreme's IP address on your local network along with the teamviewer codes of your upstream device.

 

[Nils]

Good morning!

We're resuming applying updates again. Send your update request to support@taikoaudio.com including teamviewer access codes. It would be helpful is you update your Roon installation to 1353 prior to requesting an update which saves us the time it takes doing that for you.

Please try to provide our support team with TeamViewer codes of the Extreme itself, that will significantly reduce the load on our support team (which consists of only me today). If you struggle accessing the Extreme's desktop please include the Extreme's IP address on your local network along with the teamviewer codes of your upstream device.

I sent out email request Saturday 23:27 to Taiko Support to get above update
Today, Sunday at 09:32 I got the message from @Taiko Audio himself that the update was performed
First - another piece of evidence to the simply outstanding support-level of Taiko - BRAVO!

I do not listen to Roon - gave up long time ago once I got a taste of XDMS' SQ but this time I am grateful for Roon's lack of SQ regression testing before releasing new product version as this is what brought about this update from Taiko

I do not know what Taiko changed but it very positively impacted timing and reverb - tones are now lingering longer, I feel that music is flowing 'slower' (perception only of course) drawing me even deeper into the music -> absolutely stunning SQ.

I can only imagine the # hours of listening and experimenting performed by @Taiko Audio and Team that lies behind the resulting changes that make up this update... I just hope that there are some additional improvements still pending (greedy I know!) with the NSM upgrade but given what has been said about the scope of NSM I would be very surprised if there are not a lot more coming...

Thank you Taiko (and Roon)!

 

[nonesup]

Good morning!

We're resuming applying updates again. Send your update request to support@taikoaudio.com including teamviewer access codes. It would be helpful is you update your Roon installation to 1353 prior to requesting an update which saves us the time it takes doing that for you.

Please try to provide our support team with TeamViewer codes of the Extreme itself, that will significantly reduce the load on our support team (which consists of only me today). If you struggle accessing the Extreme's desktop please include the Extreme's IP address on your local network along with the teamviewer codes of your upstream device.

Emile, I suppose that once we send you the Extreme Team Viewer codes, the update process does not require user intervention, meaning we can send the codes and get to work. If so, do you send a message to let us know that the update has been carried out?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Emile, I suppose that once we send you the Extreme Team Viewer codes, the update process does not require user intervention, meaning we can send the codes and get to work. If so, do you send a message to let us know that the update has been carried out?

Indeed! If you provide codes directly into the Extreme, we just need a minute or 2 to apply the update, and we won't need any user interaction.

 

[Taiko Audio]

We're calling it a day again, updates resuming tomorrow morning 8AM CEST!

 

[SwissTom]

We're calling it a day again, updates resuming tomorrow morning 8AM CEST!

@Taiko Audio

Wow, what an act of abnegation!

I hope you get gently to the end

Here's an idea: couldn't you add a feature to XDMS or create an iPad app that would send you the Teamviewer information?

It would be one click on the app, or on XDMS, and would save you a lot of time and energy.

I don't know how "scriptable" Teamviewer is, but it would be worth looking into it.