Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[wil]

I do get exactly what you’re saying....if you want to enjoy poorer recordings there is a means via Roon to re-equalise their frequencies. I just think that the bad recordings are bad for a number of reasons related to mastering, too varied to fix with a few frequency adjustments. By the time I’ve gone to the trouble to fix the problem and analyze whether its fixed I just wonder if I should just accept that a few recordings aren’t great. I agree that some of the anomalies can be fixed (some can’t) but I think the ’fixing’ may be a greater ‘disturbance’ than the problem itself. For me, the biggest problem are mixes where instruments share exactly the same acoustic space, crowding each other, while the entire rest of the soundstage width and depth remains empty and silent. Such recordings sound like multiple musicians all standing in the same place. Such wasted opportunity. Conversely the ‘singer-songwriter who sings on one side of the stage whilst playing guitar on the other or pianos whose keyboards sound 12 feet long. Fortunately these are fairly rare.
With respect, I would say there‘s a big difference between the cable and some Roon presets. The cable treats the entire system and all recordings and once done, there is no selection (when to use it, when not) and therefore no analytical listening required.

I've never tried the Roon DSP, but I do use the DSP on my speakers (Avantgarde). They allow 10 bands parametric eq at 500 hz and below. I have it set for the room and simply adjust the bass gain sometimes per recording where more or less bass is beneficial.

I tend to avoid bad recordings (of which, granted, there are many). But, I don't let it bother me anymore as there is so much great music available through streaming that I haven't begun to explore. My experience is that Jazz, of all genres, has the best overall recording quality. Classical is all over the place but it's not hard to find good recordings. Alternative, Americana, Rock, etc is pretty disappointing with a mine field of good music compromised by mediocre to terrible recordings.

@spiritofmusic, I'll have to listen to the first King Crimson again-- streamed-- and see if was ruined. I have good memories of it on vinyl, in a smoke-filled basement at age 13!

 

[Koegz]

Al M Just because someone is happy with what they have, does not mean, what they have makes them the happiest they could be!
??

 

[Al M.]

Al M Just because someone is happy with what they have, does not mean, what they have makes them the happiest they could be!
??

Well that's a silly wiseass comment. You have no clue about the sound of my system, and my other listening experiences.

 

[Taiko Audio]

"Generally speaking", don't know. What I do know is that the sound with AES/EBU from my CD transport is soft and laid back only when the music demands it, and then competently so. Otherwise? Hell no. Exciting? Hell yeah.

So yes, your comment makes me smile: if you could hear my system, you would know why .

Generally as in with the Extreme, comparing AES/EBU to USB/Ethernet, the results do vary from DAC to DAC of course.

 

[bonzo75]

Al M Just because someone is happy with what they have, does not mean, what they have makes them the happiest they could be!
??

Would rather have you make the wiseass comment than I

 

[microstrip]

Slam, more explosive and full scale with proper size are my preferences as well.
Do you think that top CD spinners still have the edge over top servers for this sound signature?
Thanks

Matt

My comment addresses a particular matching with some specific recordings, I can't enunciate any general rule. But it is clear that some CD spinners have a clear signature - most of our preferred spinners have poor jitter measurements. The Kalista or the Forsell transport measurements were a real horror. We can say that in some sense they were tuned to sound more like some glorious vinyl.

 

[Taiko Audio]

My comment addresses a particular matching with some specific recordings, I can't enunciate any general rule. But it is clear that some CD spinners have a clear signature - most of our preferred spinners have poor jitter measurements. The Kalista or the Forsell transport measurements were a real horror. We can say that in some sense they were tuned to sound more like some glorious vinyl.

Purposely introducing jitter is an absolutely valid sound tuning tool which I have used myself in the past. Although maybe even currently as 80km SFP modules used on short ranges can definitely introduce some of that

 

[matthias]

@microstrip
@Taiko Audio
Thanks, maybe upcoming CD transports with USB output have better jitter specs.

Matt

 

[Koegz]

Al M, I assure you, it was not my intent to offend you or diminish the quality of your system or it’s sound.
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[Rhapsody]

Al M, I assure you, it was not my intent to offend you or diminish the quality of your system or it’s sound.
??

I have this happen to me all the time. I think that I have a system set up and I think it sounds glorious. Then something happens (new this or that OR repositioning speakers or ???) and all of a sudden what I thought was glorious was not even close to what it sounds like now.

Or thinking what I have sounds great and then going and listening to someone's system that is at a different level.

Koegz, point being I knew exactly what you meant and as I said it happens to me frequently.

 

[Al M.]

I have this happen to me all the time. I think that I have a system set up and I think it sounds glorious. Then something happens (new this or that OR repositioning speakers or ???) and all of a sudden what I thought was glorious was not even close to what it sounds like now.

Or thinking what I have sounds great and then going and listening to someone's system that is at a different level.

Koegz, point being I knew exactly what you meant and as I said it happens to me frequently.

The single dose of reality that you need is unamplified live music. Then you know how far your system is off the real thing.

However, this was not the point here, if you look at how this particular discussion started, with the claim that "generally speaking, AES/EBU is softer and more laid back".

 

[Rhapsody]

The single dose of reality that you need is unamplified live music. Then you know how far your system is off the real thing.

However, this was not the point here, if you look at how this particular discussion started, with the claim that "generally speaking, AES/EBU is softer and more laid back".

Hi Al, I play acoustic guitar for at least an hour every day. For me, I've never heard an audio system that is the same as live music. For me they are two different things. I've played and listened to live unamplified music since I was a baby and have been listening to audio systems since I think I was 10. No audio system ever comes close for me.

I know people think and say they're systems sound as good as live music, not me.

I just read the comment about thinking one's system is great until you hear something better, which as I said I experience every once in a while. No biggie either way.

 

[Al M.]

Hi Al, I play acoustic guitar for at least an hour every day. For me, I've never heard an audio system that is the same as live music. For me they are two different things. I've played and listened to live unamplified music since I was a baby and have been listening to audio systems since I think I was 10. No audio system ever comes close for me.

I know people think and say they're systems sound as good as live music, not me.

Yes, pretty much what I said.

I just read the comment about thinking one's system is great until you hear something better, which as I said I experience every once in a while. No biggie either way.

Sure. I have again recently heard a system that was in some ways far better than mine (in other ways not, the contrary). Still wasn't as good as live music.

 

[nuway]

Purposely introducing jitter is an absolutely valid sound tuning tool which I have used myself in the past. Although maybe even currently as 80km SFP modules used on short ranges can definitely introduce some of that

Would be interesting measured jitter on those 80km SFP with angled attenuator in line(5db)

 

[Rhapsody]

Yes, pretty much what I said.



Sure. I have again recently heard a system that was in some ways far better than mine (in other ways not, the contrary). Still wasn't as good as live music.

I live a half a block from a park, where someone is always playing something unamplified. In the middle of NYC with all of the noise and in the open air, I still marvel at no matter what it is that I hear at the park, it is a different experience from sitting and listening even to a REALLY good audio system.

 

[bonzo75]

Sure. I have again recently heard a system that was in some ways far better than mine (in other ways not, the contrary).

Wow I definitely need to travel to hear this one.

 

[adyc]

Hi Al, I play acoustic guitar for at least an hour every day. For me, I've never heard an audio system that is the same as live music. For me they are two different things. I've played and listened to live unamplified music since I was a baby and have been listening to audio systems since I think I was 10. No audio system ever comes close for me.

I know people think and say they're systems sound as good as live music, not me.

I just read the comment about thinking one's system is great until you hear something better, which as I said I experience every once in a while. No biggie either way.

One of the reasons that it never comes close to live is too much processing of post recordings. These sound engineers add way too much sound effects. Actually, I prefer old recordings. I believe they have way less processing than modern recordings. Recently, I spent a lot of time listening to Horowitz Live in Carnegie Hall. Some of the recitals were from 1950s. They sound remarkably good and closer to live than many new modern recordings. Horowitz recordings with DG is one example. Very poor sounding compared to his old recordings.

 

[wil]

Would be interesting measured jitter on those 80km SFP with angled attenuator in line(5db)

Is there a particular attenuator recommended with the 80km SFP's from Startech?

 

[Rhapsody]

One of the reasons that it never comes close to live is too much processing of post recordings. These sound engineers add way too much sound effects. Actually, I prefer old recordings. I believe they have way less processing than modern recordings. Recently, I spent a lot of time listening to Horowitz Live in Carnegie Hall. Some of the recitals were from 1950s. They sound remarkably good and closer to live than many new modern recordings. Horowitz recordings with DG is one example. Very poor sounding compared to his old recordings.

I do listen to a lot of early 60s jazz.
Agree that systems sounds a lot closer to the real thing in those recordings but there is still a big difference for me.

Meet me down at Duke's place

 

[nuway]

Is there a particular attenuator recommended with the 80km SFP's from Startech?

I use this one at both ends of the fiber cable: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B1KH6DX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It works protecting the receivers from the high power tx on short lengths and small improvement in SQ in my system with neutral speakers.