Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Steve Williams]

Change of topic. Let’s say I have an Extreme in my system and I visit a CD market and come home with 30 or so discs. What’s the best way to load those into the Extreme’s memory bank?

I had an NAS with about 8 TB’s of music. I was using my laptop wired into my router and began the copy BUT I was limited by my laptop which copies 100MB/second. It took me days to get a third of the way through. Then Emile visited and said we should use the Extreme to transfer data as it does one GB/second so 10!times faster. Emile worked his magic and transferred all of the rest in under 6 hours. As for CD!’s Emile will give you the best option

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Change of topic. Let’s say I have an Extreme in my system and I visit a CD market and come home with 30 or so discs. What’s the best way to load those into the Extreme’s memory bank?

Emile can set up a file (via Team Viewer) to drop any downloaded files into that will automatically upload onto the PCIe drives.

you simply need a CPU that is on your LAN that can 'see' the Extreme.

 

[Billygxx]

Marc

as I said there are many roads to Rome. Those things which I have chosen to use in my system I feel are natural. Needless to say that there are countless other products which do the same. You pick your flavor, pay your money and take your chances.

I have said many times here that a good MSB cable trumps other things. Have a look at Mike and his use of a Gobel USB wire. There is just no doubt in my mind. how efficacious a good USB cable can be. Emile has also stated this.

What is a MSB cable?

 

[Steve Williams]

My error. Typo

USB Cable

I corrected my post. I apologize for the confusion

 

[Steve Williams]

Emile can set up a file (via Team Viewer) to drop any downloaded files into that will automatically upload onto the PCIe drives.

you simply need a CPU that is on your LAN that can 'see' the Extreme.

That is good to know Mike.

We will still have to rip the CD first I would assume

Any secrets of transferring the CD's to the Extreme. I know your son had a brilliant method set up to digitize all of your CD library

 

[the sound of Tao]

This is the main issue - no stereo, even ideal stereo, will ever sound as the real. Each of us considers natural what we feel reminds us more of the real or is enjoyable for any other reason. Some people even consider that excessive transparency of the process will create an unreal sound.



Again, unless you add suggestion (also referred as bias) and alcohol beverages there is no indistinguishable ...



As soon as we enter perception unless we add statistical analysis and proper experiments than we have just opinions and a lot of long enjoyable debates on semantics, as probably this one ...



IMHO yours or mine experience and expertise are not relevant at all on this matter. The single instrument experiment is the most flawed argument of the sound reproduction since the Edison listening challenges. Using recordings of violins or guitars to establish what is natural or not is not a valid criteria IMHO - anyway just look at F. Toole arguments concerning the Circle of Confusion to rule it out.

Tbh Micro, genuinely I don’t see what the difficulty in understanding the distinction that an instrument sounds convincingly natural as opposed to not being natural sounding is... and also if what is discerned in listening (in what is after all a purely subjective experience) is invalid then what does any of this actually matter... and where is your treasured learning in this then if your experience validates nothing.

Denying what your essential experience tells you is going on (in a purely subjective experience) leaves you with nothing other than a handful of supporting specs and waterfall plots to validate what you are hearing and that there is a tired and insufficient old argument just waiting to happen (at best).

While I am unconvinced but realistically there isn’t really a problem that you might not get what the word natural is or that you don’t even seem to think that is an important distinction to make. Everyone gets out of this what they want. For me and (from what I read in forums and in reviews) many of us think is that instruments sounding convincingly as they should sound is a very basic, most essential and fairly fundamental capstone in the search for fidelity. It’s a test if the trick of music reproduction is working and using acoustic instruments as a benchmark in seeing if they then sound convincing is a fairly common and basic review step in how effectively a system is in portraying the experience of performance.

Final review in how effective a system sounds for me always lays with the listener and the listening and I believe many consider our experience of our systems and the music is in truth the very most and perhaps only important thing. So if you are genuinely unconcerned that when you play acoustic music that those instruments then don’t sound convincingly natural enough to sound essentially much as they are then listen to your potentially unnatural sounding system in calm and lovely bliss cause as everyone says there are just so many roads to both Nirvana and Rome. Tao out (in a most natural place and peace) in 2020

 

[sbo6]

I guess it gets back to the old days when there were tone controls

As my good friend says," there's chocolate, vanilla and strawberry. You pay your money and you take your chances"

BTW, everything I use now has been carefully voiced to what I call natural. Also I have mentioned here many times as well that my system now is one component away from my end game and that arrives in the next few weeks
.
Sure I can do other things but I honestly have no further itches to scratch. I only want to listen to music. I have been in this hobby likely than most of you here are old.Over the years I cannot recall all of the countless pieces of gear and different speakers I have used to bring me to where I am now.I have done all the same experiments and asked all of the questions that the above posts were asked of me.I have been down most every rabbit hole that all of you are now having fun with. For me 2020 is not only about perfect vision but for me having the vision of what my end game system is. Nothing more. I plan on sitting back and listening to the music, all music. The kicker for me is that prior to my owning the Extreme I was very mindful of what format I was listening to, because in my system there were differences to hear. The Extreme however, for me at least has changed that. Everything sounds so darn good that it matters not what format I play. I love it all an have no plans in changing the voicing with a simple fuse. But as stated, and for obvious reasons, that's just my $0.02. Prior to the Extreme my listening was 90% analog and 10% digital. Presently it's total opposite at 90% digital

As to what USB cable I use, it has been mentioned here many times. For my ears they are going to bury me with these cables as I won't ever change

I'm very happy for you to have sufficiently scratched that itch and be done, simply to enjoy the music. IMO digital is the way to go, it's so simple, sounds excellent and with streaming (I assume you are or will soon?) it's a whole new world of music exploration. Last comment - if 2020 = perfect vision, isn't our vision getting worse since 2019 is better? ;-)

As I like to say, Happy Listening!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

That is good to know Mike.

We will still have to rip the CD first I would assume

Any secrets of transferring the CD's to the Extreme. I know your son had a brilliant method set up to digitize all of your CD library

for a few years i used a Kodak 50 disc ripper, with DB Poweramp ripping software. did 3000 of my 4000 CD's. then it had an interface issue and my son tried to fix briefly it but lost interest (i choose my battles with him).

since then i have a single disc ripper set-up which does work. now i have to manually load those files into this file Emile has set up. i'm not techie enough to really give you a good step by step process; but it's really simple if you find someone techie they can hand hold you through the process once Emile sets up that file to load into.

sorry i can't help more.

 

[microstrip]

for a few years i used a Kodak 50 disc ripper, with DB Poweramp ripping software. did 3000 of my 4000 CD's. then it had an interface issue and my son tried to fix briefly it but lost interest (i choose my battles with him).

since then i have a single disc ripper set-up which does work. now i have to manually load those files into this file Emile has set up. i'm not techie enough to really give you a good step by step process; but it's really simple if you find someone techie they can hand hold you through the process once Emile sets up that file to load into.

sorry i can't help more.

Unfortunately this seller did not want to ship it to Europe - the last ones sold for $150!

http://hyperdiscs.pbworks.com/w/page/62039078/Automated-Bulk-CD-Ripping-Robots-for-Sale

 

[dminches]

Ripping CDs is pretty easy if you have a computer with an optical drive. Programs like EAC or dbPoweramp are simple to use. After you rip the CD you can tag it so I fits your tagging rules.

Although I don’t own an Extreme I am sure adding the ripping music to its drives is simple. As long as you can see it on the network you can send files to it. Maybe one can even remote into it.

 

[microstrip]

Ripping CDs is pretty easy if you have a computer with an optical drive. Programs like EAC or dbPoweramp are simple to use. After you rip the CD you can tag it so I fits your tagging rules.

Although I don’t own an Extreme I am sure adding the ripping music to its drives is simple. As long as you can see it on the network you can send files to it. Maybe one can even remote into it.

The Extreme has no drives - their controller and power supply needs would probably transform it a Medium server!

Ripping CD's is extremely easy, but extremely boring after the first 20 - I stopped and gave up around 40! It is stupid affair - thousands of people ripping the same CDs to get the same bit exact files. Audiophiles owning the same CDs should organize - each should rip a common CD and share the results.

 

[dminches]

The Extreme has no drives - their controller and power supply needs would probably transform it a Medium server!

Ripping CD's is extremely easy, but extremely boring after the first 20 - I stopped and gave up around 40! It is stupid affair - thousands of people ripping the same CDs to get the same bit exact files. Audiophiles owning the same CDs should organize - each should rip a common CD and share the results.

What drives are you referring to? It has storage to hold the music. If you are referring to an optical drive I was saying you need another computer to do that.

 

[microstrip]

Tbh Micro, genuinely I don’t see what the difficulty in understanding the distinction that an instrument sounds convincingly natural as opposed to not being natural sounding is... and also if what is discerned in listening (in what is after all a purely subjective experience) is invalid then what does any of this actually matter... and where is your treasured learning in this then if your experience validates nothing.

Denying what your essential experience tells you is going on (in a purely subjective experience) leaves you with nothing other than a handful of supporting specs and waterfall plots to validate what you are hearing and that there is a tired and insufficient old argument just waiting to happen (at best).

While I am unconvinced but realistically there isn’t really a problem that you might not get what the word natural is or that you don’t even seem to think that is an important distinction to make. Everyone gets out of this what they want. For me and (from what I read in forums and in reviews) many of us think is that instruments sounding convincingly as they should sound is a very basic, most essential and fairly fundamental capstone in the search for fidelity. It’s a test if the trick of music reproduction is working and using acoustic instruments as a benchmark in seeing if they then sound convincing is a fairly common and basic review step in how effectively a system is in portraying the experience of performance.

Final review in how effective a system sounds for me always lays with the listener and the listening and I believe many consider our experience of our systems and the music is in truth the very most and perhaps only important thing. So if you are genuinely unconcerned that when you play acoustic music that those instruments then don’t sound convincingly natural enough to sound essentially much as they are then listen to your potentially unnatural sounding system in calm and lovely bliss cause as everyone says there are just so many roads to both Nirvana and Rome. Tao out (in a most natural place and peace) in 2020

Thanks for your long post, but as I stated, I am debating the ideas behind stereo sound quality and why I do not feel the sound qualifier "natural" is a good term to be used to describe the sound of a system.

You seem more interested in wrongly imagining what I do or I do not do than in the essence of the subject. In other threads I have described the music I use to evaluate my system, my biases and the risks of my subjective procedures - IMHO they are not relevant to our exchange of views about "natural" and I will not discuss them here.

BTW , instruments sounding convincing is as subjective and listener dependent as natural.

Anyway, the dynamics of the thread are showing what I feel - each member has his particular and antagonistic view on what is not natural ...

 

[microstrip]

What drives are you referring to? It has storage to hold the music. If you are referring to an optical drive I was saying you need another computer to do that.

Yes, I was just telling people who are not aware of it that the Extreme does not have a CD drive. The Innuous Statement for example includes such reader - you just insert the CD and it is automatically ripped and ejected.

 

[dminches]

Yes, I was just telling people who are not aware of it that the Extreme does not have a CD drive. The Innuous Statement for example includes such reader - you just insert the CD and it is automatically ripped and ejected.

Gotcha. I never put an optical drive in any of builds. I see no need.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Thanks for your long post, but as I stated, I am debating the ideas behind stereo sound quality and why I do not feel the sound qualifier "natural" is a good term to be used to describe the sound of a system.

You seem more interested in wrongly imagining what I do or I do not do than in the essence of the subject. In other threads I have described the music I use to evaluate my system, my biases and the risks of my subjective procedures - IMHO they are not relevant to our exchange of views about "natural" and I will not discuss them here.

BTW , instruments sounding convincing is as subjective and listener dependent as natural.

Anyway, the dynamics of the thread are showing what I feel - each member has his particular and antagonistic view on what is not natural ...

All good Micro, I write a bit because I do value shared understanding and am less interested in a short strategic counterpoint based (and often then just entrenched) debate.

So you don’t use the term natural as a sonic distinction and others do. No need to prove or disprove anything as we are mostly saying the same things about the challenges with dealing in the non-absolutes and subjective appreciation but then just arriving at completely different conclusions... and that is the point with subjectivity.

All perspectives can be valid in subjective appreciation and after that there should be only respect for each other’s different propositions and accepting that one perspective can’t actually invalidate the other and then being comfortable with the idea that two different positions can in truth be subjectively right...

 

[CKKeung]

We will still have to rip the CD first I would assume.

Any secrets of transferring the CD's to the Extreme.

Several Extreme owner friends of mine in Hong Kong bought their Extremes with the Melco D100 external drive/ripper.
The dealer/Emile have set them up for plug&play ripping.
We auditioned rippled files and they were very good sonically. D100 is one of the best choices in the market.
https://www.melco-audio.com/products/d100/

And most of us pre-treat our CD with de-magnetization and de-static before ripping.
Believe it or not, these two processes do make audible difference.

The followings are the best and most popular products for these processes :
http://www.furutech.com/2016/02/12/12469/
https://telos-audio.com.tw/quantum-magnetic-tuning/
https://acousticrevive.jp/portfolio-item/disc-demagnetizer/

I myself use the Furutech DeStatic III and the Telos (for de-mag) both for ripping and for cd/sacd playback.

 

[Al M.]

And most of us pre-treat our CD with de-magnetization and de-static before ripping.
Believe it or not, these two processes do make audible difference.

That's not possible. Upon live replay of a disc through a transport treatment might make a difference, since then it is about exact timing of the bits. But once you copy a CD to a hard drive this aspect falls away. Copied bits are copied bits.

If it could make a difference, then you could never reliably copy data from a CD Rom, for example. This is just not the case. We've done that repeatedly with scientific data in our lab, in the pre flash drive days.

 

[CKKeung]

Haha
Such comments are not unexpected.
That's why I mentioned on post #2497 : "Believe it or not ... ".


The fact is that nearly every CAS audiophiles in HK perform these snake-oil rituals before ripping.

 

[Al M.]

Haha
Such comments are not unexpected.
That's why I mentioned on post #2497 : "Believe it or not ... ".


The fact is that nearly every CAS audiophiles in HK perform these snake-oil rituals before ripping.

Of course, when you believe it you hear it. Humans can convince themselves of many things if they just want to.

However, it cannot factually make a difference, for the reasons stated.