Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[cat6man]

One thing that has kept most problems to a minimum for me is that some time ago I made it a practice before adding any music to my library to check all the metadata tags in YATE, filling in blank fields and correcting tags for ARTIST and ALBUM ARTIST (or anything else) that were not consistent or didn't contain information the way I want it displayed, and adding ALBUM ARTWORK where none was found. I'm no longer surprised at the lack of information, or lack of consistent information that commercial releases come tagged with during their mastering process at the label. And of course, private recordings, or rips from R2R don't have any information and so all that must be supplied by the user.

i use tagscanner (a windows program, running under wine in linux) and a very highly proprietary method for fixing all the naming variations (Bach, J.S. Bach, J. S. Bach, JSBach, ad infinitum) and other poorly controlled metadata in tags, as well as to consistently name live concerts (i.e. "2017-02-14 Cargegie Hall", "1977-04-23 Springfield Civic Center", etc) which are stored in a file structure that i use to easily navigate between genres, artists, etc without the need for search (most of the time).

the proprietary method of fixing the metadata? i got my daughter to do it all over a week or so, going over my entire 7TB library.
it cost me a coffee grinder (so she can grind her pour over without disrupting the carefully tuned espresso setting on my coffee grinder)

 

[Jpowell]

Is anyone using a Balanced Iso Transformer before the Extreme? I was thinking of trying a set up of: PS Audio Power Regen > Plixir BAC feeding my sources (Extreme and Aqua DAC). Both the Extreme and Aqua use about 60 watts continuous.

I idea would be that the BAC would filter some of the RFI/EMI noise generated by the Power Regen amp.

Wil, not sure how useful this info is, but I run my entire audio room off of a large Equitech 5WQ mounted in the basement--and happen to also use the Aqua Formula xHD along with the Extreme. The individual pieces of equipment plug into 2 Audioquest Niagara 7000 power line conditioners, which plug into the Equitech-provided outlets.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Your post on how the Extreme helps bridge the digital/analog gap with large scale classical got me to thinking. I also love large scale classical and play it a fair amount. I guess you could say that, as a former French horn player, it's in my DNA.

I've always thought that the high end, whether digital or analog, struggles with really large scale orchestral music. I regularly attend live classical performances (Seattle Symphony subscriber) and have heard great orchestras in great halls (e.g., RCO in the Concertgebouw, LA in Disney, Cleveland in Severance, Chicago in Orchestra Hall, etc.). I don't for a minute believe that high end stereo will ever re-create, in true fidelity, the ambiance and sound of a big orchestra in a great hall. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy listening to it on a high end system.

Mike, I have heard your system a couple times at Pacific NW Audio Society get-togethers (thank you for hosting these!) and, while it's been a few years now, your system is the best I've heard and does large scale music exceptionally well. So I trust you when you say that the Extreme has made real strides towards making this experience even better.

For me, I still get the greatest fidelity with large scale music when I listen with headphones. If if really want to hear all the inner voices and all the nuance, that is the way to go for me. Speakers will give you more of the macro dynamics and that whole body feeling when a room is energized, but I always lose some of the subtlety and don't get as complete an understanding of the composer's intention or the performer's interpretation. That remains true with the Extreme.

hi Always,

thank you for the kind words about my system. and i agree that music reproduction systems fall short of the real thing. no doubt.

regarding speakers and headphones and which can do what part better now; 8-10 years ago i invested heavily into headphones and headphone amplifiers to investigate this specific question. my best combo before i sold them off was the original Stax 009's and BHSE amplifier; which could not compete with my system of that time (which was the question that caused me to try headphones). i know headphone performance has advanced since that time. i've not heard your HiFiMan HE1000's or other current top examples.

not sure how recently you heard my system, or how much sweet spot time you spent when you were here. but your opinion about how that goes i'm not sure i agree with. but it would be interesting to consider it again. i have looked at headphones and headphone amps in recent years and considered jumping into it again to check out where this is now. every time i think about headphones, i add another turntable or phono cartridge with the piggy bank money and don't get headphones.

another aspect here is how much of the performance envelope is lost with headphones to get whatever musical attributes that is gained. with my room the rational for headphones is marginal.

and of course it goes without saying; you would be welcome to visit anytime and we could examine this question at length.

 

[Kris]

As Ravenna is an ASIO driver it should work. The USB driver we are developing consists of 2 parts, a kernel mode USB direct hardware driver and an ASIO driver interfacing the Player to hardware driver. For the driver there are 2 options, a generic USB class 2 compliant driver which can drive any DAC, or a more advanced driver which will likely only work with DACs which utilize a XMOS USB interface (most higher priced DACs use XMOS). The latter will require us to add individual support for each DAC as these will have unique USB id's which tell Windows to load the driver for that device, but it also provides more functionality we're not sure of if we actually need it.

Not sure if I got it right.
Is is going to be Kernel with advanced settings for your USB driver or ASIO ,
or both ?
Is TotalDAC dedicated driver still in the development?
that should be limited to 24/192 and DSD64 any way.

 

[EuroDriver]

I second that request, Mike. Display of bit depth and resolution would be very nice. Like you, I have a bunch of stuff that is either non-commercial (rips from R2R master tapes, live performances privately taped or recorded to digital, CD rips and high-res downloads of the same title, etc).

Initially, I was tagging the titles with bit-depth/resolution in parenthesis after the album title, using YATE -- until I found that doing so often caused searches in Roon to miss some of the versions. Though a fair number of these problems would be alleviated by more consistent tagging across my entire library, at this point in time with 60K+ tracks that's a task that probably isn't going to get done any time soon.

It is possible to use the Advanced tab in My Library > Search to specify bit depth and resolution, but that is much less convenient than being able to view the albums directly with that information displayed already.

Steve Z

Please keep these user interface suggestions and requests coming !

Gapless Playback is the top priority for the Beta, and Wilson will have display of bit depth and sample frequency as well.

As to searching, for tracks , filtering by different criteria, fixing meta data, this stuff is all doable, but we want to do the SQ enhancing stuff first. We believe that Extreme owners will agree with these priorities.

The reports from the Alpha testers have already given us ideas about processing strategies to test after the Beta release is done.

 

[oldmustang]

Thanks, Ed. Exciting times; I'm very much looking forward to the beta, not because the alpha is deficient -- its sound quality is so good I could happily live with it ever after -- but because every time I start to think, "How could this get any better?" you guys surpass yourselves and deliver something that moves the bar even higher.

I agree with your priorities -- sound quality first and foremost. In actuality, though it would nice to have a way of addressing metadata editing from within TAS, there are a variety of stand-alone programs that can accomplish that on an off-line basis. So from my point of view, editing information is hardly a pressing need. Others may see it differently, of course.

I'll include a small update to my testing of the Taiko USB driver. Last evening I spent some time comparing more of the buffer settings, particularly 2048 and Adaptive-1. The jury is still out, but right now I think Adaptive-1 is giving me the best balance of impact, dynamics, and clarity combined with low-level detail, depth and ambience, and tonal richness.

Of course, this is all subjective and more than a little system and personal preference dependent, but does seem consistent -- as I increase the buffer size the perceived sound quality shifts from incisive and direct toward more relaxed, expansive and richer. Adaptive-1 seems the most even-handed across the range of sample-rates, with 2048 being very close. Buffer sizes less than 2048 are progressively a little more brash each step lower (and below a certain buffer size, some sample rates don't want to play). Going the other direction, 4096 borders on losing a tad too much of the wonderful clarity the Extreme can offer, and buffer size 8192 is just too laid back for my taste.

Steve Z

 

[steve williams]

Thanks, Ed. Exciting times; I'm very much looking forward to the beta, not because the alpha is deficient -- its sound quality is so good I could happily live with it ever after -- but because every time I start to think, "How could this get any better?" you guys surpass yourselves and deliver something that moves the bar even higher.

I agree with your priorities -- sound quality first and foremost. In actuality, though it would nice to have a way of addressing metadata editing from within TAS, there are a variety of stand-alone programs that can accomplish that on an off-line basis. So from my point of view, editing information is hardly a pressing need. Others may see it differently, of course.

I'll include a small update to my testing of the Taiko USB driver. Last evening I spent some time comparing more of the buffer settings, particularly 2048 and Adaptive-1. The jury is still out, but right now I think Adaptive-1 is giving me the best balance of impact, dynamics, and clarity combined with low-level detail, depth and ambience, and tonal richness.

Of course, this is all subjective and more than a little system and personal preference dependent, but does seem consistent -- as I increase the buffer size the perceived sound quality shifts from incisive and direct toward more relaxed, expansive and richer. Adaptive-1 seems the most even-handed across the range of sample-rates, with 2048 being very close. Buffer sizes less than 2048 are progressively a little more brash each step lower (and below a certain buffer size, some sample rates don't want to play). Going the other direction, 4096 borders on losing a tad too much of the wonderful clarity the Extreme can offer, and buffer size 8192 is just too laid back for my taste.

Steve Z

I think it’s all system dependent and personal preference. For me
PCM. 2048
DSD 8192

 

[dakabali]

Is anyone using a Balanced Iso Transformer before the Extreme? I was thinking of trying a set up of: PS Audio Power Regen > Plixir BAC feeding my sources (Extreme and Aqua DAC). Both the Extreme and Aqua use about 60 watts continuous.

I idea would be that the BAC would filter some of the RFI/EMI noise generated by the Power Regen amp.

My setup is PS Audio P20 > Plixir Elite BAC 400 > Extreme & Pacific DAC. Imho a BIT is "mandatory" at the HC output of the PP and improves the already positive effects of the Extreme.

 

[CKKeung]

The Extreme in the showroom of Volent HK, dealer of Taiko Audio is also plugged into a PLiXiR Elite Series BIT.

 

[plasmod3]

The Extreme in the showroom of Volent HK, dealer of Taiko Audio is also plugged into a PLiXiR Elite Series BIT.

Volent is also the distributor for plixir in hk though CK - can that be a bias in selection there?

 

[plasmod3]

Wil, not sure how useful this info is, but I run my entire audio room off of a large Equitech 5WQ mounted in the basement--and happen to also use the Aqua Formula xHD along with the Extreme. The individual pieces of equipment plug into 2 Audioquest Niagara 7000 power line conditioners, which plug into the Equitech-provided outlets.

I am waiting on my wall mounted toruspower unit to arrive . I have seen a few members use this - Mike as well i believe - can't wait to get it into my system I would be the first australian to get a wall mounted unit in i understand - kangaroo and digeridoo.

 

[steve williams]

Yesterday was quite a day which ended with an sudden unexpected problem only to resolved by Emile and Wilson in light speed time

Yesterday morning found me once again spending several hours listening to all of my old music on TAS. Went downstair for lunch and in the interim there was a network outage by our local ISP. This lasted for about 15 minutes before the network came back up and was functional. Shortly after I went upstairs to listen to music and was able to listen to music from the stored files in my Extreme which I initially could do until I decided I wanted to compare similar files on Qobuz. When I clicked on Qobuz there was nothing to see

I wasn't sure what was going on except I knew was connected to the internet but I got this message seen below.

I spent a few hours trouble shooting but no matter what I did I always got this same message. It was now about 4:00PM here in California when I got a text from Emile who was driving home at 0100 hours in his part of the world, regarding another issue. I told Emile what was happening and you have to love Emile because he made suggestions on his drive home and continued at home for almost another hour even though I suggested it's late and he should go to bed and we will revisit the issue today. Emile however continued to persevere but was limited as he doesn't have an Extreme at home ( I guess he can afford one ) so Emile immediately texted Wilson in Toronto who was still awake working on the beta version of TAS and Wilson responded immediately and took over and we said good night to Emile. What Emile discovered was that when my network went down and after it came back up again we discovered that my Extreme snow had a different IP address than what was always there. I seems there is a simple way on TAS to enter the new IP address which resolved the issue until I exited TAS remote and opened it again where the old IP address was once again present . Bottom line is we couldn't ping the Extreme.

With Team Viewer Wilson flew through many different menus of the Extreme and my network and within 5 minutes had solved the problem. According to Wilson this happened when my network went down and my DHCP server reallocated a new IP address for the Extreme. Wilson thought DHCP might be my router or firewall. Well bottom line I was back up and running in warp speed thanks to Wilson and Emile. I had to mention this little anecdote because once again the customer service at Taiko is without question the very finest of any company I have ever owned gear. For Emile to talk me through this from 0100-0200 and then turn it over to Wilson who replied immediately and solved the issue before I could even blink. There is no question that I would never have been able to figure this out on my own. The dedication and commitment of Emile, Wilson and the Taiko team is truly second to. none. You guys at Taiko deserve to reap the rewards of your ongoing endeavors. There is no similar company in the industry that even comes close to Taiko. I feel privileged to be an owner of such a great product with an amazing back up for we end users.

 

[StreamFidelity]

According to Wilson this happened when my network went down and my DHCP server reallocated a new IP address for the Extreme.

A really nice report, Steve.

In my experience it is better to configure the same fixed IP address in both: the router and the PC network adapter. But I'm sure the Taiko team knows this better than me.

Greetings Gabriel

 

[steve williams]

A really nice report, Steve.

In my experience it is better to configure the same fixed IP address in both: the router and the PC network adapter. But I'm sure the Taiko team knows this better than me.

Greetings Gabriel

It’s all above my pay grade

 

[austinpop]

I shudder to think of how much of humanity's time, in aggregate, has been wasted from problems caused by these 4 simple words:

The DHCP address changed.

 

[Taiko Audio]

A really nice report, Steve.

In my experience it is better to configure the same fixed IP address in both: the router and the PC network adapter. But I'm sure the Taiko team knows this better than me.

Greetings Gabriel

The TAS controller can actually discover the server on the network, it does not need a fixed ip address, however at Steve last night we ran into some issues where it did find the new ip address but did not release the old one. Fixed now.

 

[cat6man]

I shudder to think of how much of humanity's time, in aggregate, has been wasted from problems caused by these 4 simple words:

The DHCP address changed.

almost as much as has been wasted trying to get the projector and computer to work at the start of meetings or audio on the conference bridge

 

[cat6man]

The TAS controller can actually discover the server on the network, it does not need a fixed ip address, however at Steve last night we ran into some issues where it did find the new ip address but did not release the old one. Fixed now.

alpha testing proves its value yet again

 

[austinpop]

For me, I still get the greatest fidelity with large scale music when I listen with headphones. If if really want to hear all the inner voices and all the nuance, that is the way to go for me. Speakers will give you more of the macro dynamics and that whole body feeling when a room is energized, but I always lose some of the subtlety and don't get as complete an understanding of the composer's intention or the performer's interpretation. That remains true with the Extreme.

I agree with you 100%.

I too will stipulate up front that headphones are never going to replace the sheer visceral impact, and holographic soundstage of a full scale speaker based system, especially the stratospherically priced rigs many on this thread have the good fortune to own. But by the same token, my trio of Empyrean, HD800, and Abyss, along with other acclaimed headphones like the Susvara, the HE1000, Utopia, etc reproduce music at a quality level you have to hear to believe. Today's headphones are not your father's Grado's!

So yes, it is ironic that you and I would argue for the advantages of listening to Mahler on headphones, as Mahler is about as large scale and dynamic as they come, but the advantages are there. In fact, just last night I was listening to Dausgaard/Seattle's Mahler 10th — in my opinion the best recording of this piece in existence — and the final tympani strokes at the end of the 4th movement (Scherzo II), perforned at ppp, were rendered so perfectly, and delivered so audibly — by the combination of the Extreme, SW upsampling, and the DAVE going direct to my Empyreans — that it gave me no less of a thrill as the best speaker systems would.

The point here is that the Extreme benefits headphone systems just as much as speaker-based systems, and I am living proof of that.

 

[onlychild]

The point here is that the Extreme benefits headphone systems just as much as speaker-based systems, and I am living proof of that.

I totally agree with this statement. As one of the few headphone only users on here, I can easily hear the improvement with not just the Extreme but changes to the Extreme as well like a King Sablon, better USB, better power, etc.

Before the Extreme, listening to music on my system was very enjoyable. After the Extreme, I can't take my headphones off!! Literally! I have to make a very conscious effort to stop listening and actually do work.