@Mike Lavigne Man I wish I was your neighbor. Of course my wife would hate it as I would always be at your place listening to music. Hmm come to think of it my wife might actually like it....... 
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
sounds crazy...good...thank you for your sound description of the Daiza - got it....do you have any intention to use the center stage footers on the Daizas....
and in spite of all the perfection or because of you seem to enjoy - thats cool - the problem with the end is - it never ends....
Best Muni
and in spite of all the perfection or because of you seem to enjoy - thats cool - the problem with the end is - it never ends....
Best Muni
Muni,
i've not had Center Stage footers in my own system. at the last couple of audio shows i attended i did hear Center Stage footers in a few systems and liked what they seemed to do. i also visited Steve Williams's room a few years ago and was impressed by what i heard relative to my previous visit. one big difference was Center Stage Footers.
they are not cheap. from what i hear they may have a bit of a 'signature' in how they influence the sound. i think i like that signature. but would i tire of it? can't say.
maybe the Diaza also has a signature? if so, i've not noticed, and i have 22 Diaza's in my system. it seems very organic and life like.
yes.....it never ends.
Mike thank you again that helps to undermine what I heard from Steve and I will expriment with the footers and a Daiza will come with the Extreme once it is ready to be picked up some time around the end of November - take care...Muni,
i've not had Center Stage footers in my own system. at the last couple of audio shows i attended i did hear Center Stage footers in a few systems and liked what they seemed to do. i also visited Steve Williams's room a few years ago and was impressed by what i heard relative to my previous visit. one big difference was Center Stage Footers.
they are not cheap. from what i hear they may have a bit of a 'signature' in how they influence the sound. i think i like that signature. but would i tire of it? can't say.
maybe the Diaza also has a signature? if so, i've not noticed, and i have 22 Diaza's in my system. it seems very organic and life like.
yes.....it never ends.
Cheers
Muni, i think it's important to note that most passive resonance products have a signature. which is why we can't throw them at everything blindly. we have to try them and listen. i meant no disrespect to the Center Stage footers. i think highly of them and at some point might try some myself. i view them as one of the best choices and have recommended them many times. i had no intention of undermining anything Steve might have told you.
even my active Taiko Tana systems can be said to have a signature. the question is whether that signature is one we like, and whether it gets in the way of the music over time. is it a net gain, and does it endure as a plus.
I introduced Korean Footers Maker [HIFIStay].
Trinia is good footers, and I used 11 footers.
My result is [[Only DAIZA]].
Recently, Korean financial situation is very very seriously poor.
All my customers can't make money for SGM Extreme.
But about 30 customers want to buy DAIZA.
I sold 300 DAIZA in Korea.
Taiko Audio is always super busy and the reason is DAIZA I think.
Recent order spent 7 months, I received many complains, but now all understand Emile.
I never introduce DAIZA at all in Korean HI FI market.
Mike's super idea Dual DAIZA is very popular.
Problem is Emile is very very very busy, so my customers are waiting.
The day Taiko Audio is spaciouis will come???????
NEVER~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHA
Emile~!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need Setchi D-3~!!!!!!!!!!!!
Trinia is good footers, and I used 11 footers.
My result is [[Only DAIZA]].
Recently, Korean financial situation is very very seriously poor.
All my customers can't make money for SGM Extreme.
But about 30 customers want to buy DAIZA.
I sold 300 DAIZA in Korea.
Taiko Audio is always super busy and the reason is DAIZA I think.
Recent order spent 7 months, I received many complains, but now all understand Emile.
I never introduce DAIZA at all in Korean HI FI market.
Mike's super idea Dual DAIZA is very popular.
Problem is Emile is very very very busy, so my customers are waiting.
The day Taiko Audio is spaciouis will come???????
NEVER~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HAHA
Emile~!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need Setchi D-3~!!!!!!!!!!!!
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Mike
You heard the CS2 footers at my house. You haven’t heard the CS2M which IMO is coherent from top to bottom with no sonic signature whatsoever. I even suggested to PeterA that these new footers convey a “ natural” sound There is nothing to undermine. These are different techniques and Joe has always suggested that competing technologies should not be used together. You chose Daiza. I chose Center Stage sitting on CMS racks. To my ears this combination is simply better than anything else I’ve heard
You heard the CS2 footers at my house. You haven’t heard the CS2M which IMO is coherent from top to bottom with no sonic signature whatsoever. I even suggested to PeterA that these new footers convey a “ natural” sound There is nothing to undermine. These are different techniques and Joe has always suggested that competing technologies should not be used together. You chose Daiza. I chose Center Stage sitting on CMS racks. To my ears this combination is simply better than anything else I’ve heard
I have a yes to what you are saying - I will have to check each item of what it does in my system - sometimes others help with describing compared to other items so one can have an idea of wht it would do in ones system - I found almost all the posts here in this forum very helpful in at the end ( never comes ) ordering an Extrem I never heard - guess like quite a few did the same - even if something deosn't have or don't seem to have a resonance pattern - these might make resonances in other parts of the system visible/audible....
I will try both of them and if whichever fits get more...
thank you Mike and Steve for adding your perpective.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
As an aside……..mike and others are using double Daiza with excellent results. Initially I used CS2 1.0 under my Extreme with remarkably good results but it wasnt until I switched to the 1.5’s under my Extreme that sonically they results are off the chart as they are so good. Perhaps this is analogous to Mikes Double Daiza
Steve, it appears you are saying that Joe advises not to use CMS footers with Daiza platforms because they are "competing" technologies.
I've asked the following question on two other threads: That is,
could you and Joe be more specific as to what qualifies as competing or un-synergistic with the CMS footers? Surely you're not suggesting they are designed to sit only on CMS racks. They have to sit on something. How about a cement floor, or a wood floor? If the Daiza is not appropriate could you explain why?
Again, the Daiza is: 2” Panzerholz resting on metal feet and with a compliant layer between the feet and the wood. I believe Emile has recommended that whatever goes between the Extreme and Daiza should not be compliant (soft).
My Extreme sits directly on my HRS platform. I have never thought about using footers in addition. Does anyone else have the same configuration with footers? Posting about any experience you have had (good or bad) would be appreciated.
Hi, @dminches. I do use HRS medium sized nimbus couplers bw the Extreme and the HRS shelf to good effect (pic on last page). Two in front and one in back. I played around w spacing of the front two couplers which also makes a touch of difference. Folks on this thread had recommended trying different spacing. I like the ‘system combo’ design of HRS - shelf plus couplers. Ultimately, would love to try their shelves on one of their actual racks but ouchy pricey. but perhaps the hrs shelves w bamboo rack are better combo as is.
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I am using my Extreme sitting on a Daiza on the top of the CS2 1.0 and I am very happy with the result. There is a lot of Panzerholtz inside the Extreme in order to damp the components, I think that putting the Extreme on the Daiza is complementary. My general advice - listen and then take a decision.
would be great if someone that has both could share his/ her experience...the trouble of break in time of the CMS will probably prevent this from happening....
saying that the Daiza is 'resting' on metal feet is not quite right. more accurate would be there is a small hollow panzerholtz end cap which are the actual footers.
there is a thin metal (copper? bronze?) 3" round disc involved, but only as a compression interface. the footers are a "system". there are 3" dense foam inserts into round cavities in the bottom side of the Panzerholtz shelf. then you have these round (copper/bronze) dics exactly the same size as these cavities and foam discs; these discs are screwed to hollow panzerholtz end caps; which are filled with foam. it's the thin edges of these panzerholtz end caps which touches the rack shelf or floor below, the foam inside the end caps absorb resonance, and the copper discs compress the 3" foam and also attenuate resonance, then there is the whole Daiza shelf itself with it's spiral pattern attenuating resonance.
your gear ideally is either sitting directly on the top of the Daiza shelf without stock footers, or naked (without the copper discs--or with them if you prefer) foam filled end caps serve as the gear/Daiza interface. for this part i prefer the naked little foam filled end caps.....which is a relatively solid hard (neutral sounding) footer by itself.
no wrong answers......only what happens to work best.
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My customer Muscle Pain also uses HRS audio rack.
When he received HRS racks, he removed 3 DAIZAs.
He felt bad sound at once and reinstalled 3 DAIZAs.
He said "DAIZA is made in too long time, but I have no choice."
Taiko Audio is too busy to make DAIZA in time, but resonable price and no. 1 quality.
Try it~
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Wil
im not implying that at all in fact when Joe does his design work, none of it is in CMS racks. In fact most Center Stage users have racks other than CMS. It’s just that I don’t know the science around which the Daiza works. So it was only my thought but best suggestion is to try bothe separately and together.
micrisrip has good results with Daiza and CS. I was speaking more out of ignorance as to method of function and only wondered if it is a competing technology
...I seem to recall reading the issue was one of Panzerholtz availabilty from the source, rather than "business" at the home office.
On the advise of Steve Williams, I purchased four CS2 1.5 footers about six weeks ago. The CS2 footers sit under my Extreme which sits on a single Daiza platform.
Steve was kind enough to provide some pointers on the installation of the CS2s. After having read the CS2 thread, I steadied myself for what I expected would be a long and tortuous break-in period.
Surprisingly, a not insignificant positive effect became evident the first day. Within a few hours of installation it was very clear that there was a palatable reduction in the noise floor and greeter bass impact. And while there were some days when there was a retreat in performance during system warmup, they were short lived. In general, I experienced a fairly continuous positive incremental improvement over the next few weeks as the footers settled in.
I’m currently listening to my system, and the effect of lowering the noise floor by adding the four CS2s on top of the Daizas is nothing short of revelatory. And that’s on top of a system performance led by the Taiko Extreme that was already extremely (pun intended) engaging.
Next step is to add another Daiza under the CS2s. We shall see.
Steve was kind enough to provide some pointers on the installation of the CS2s. After having read the CS2 thread, I steadied myself for what I expected would be a long and tortuous break-in period.
Surprisingly, a not insignificant positive effect became evident the first day. Within a few hours of installation it was very clear that there was a palatable reduction in the noise floor and greeter bass impact. And while there were some days when there was a retreat in performance during system warmup, they were short lived. In general, I experienced a fairly continuous positive incremental improvement over the next few weeks as the footers settled in.
I’m currently listening to my system, and the effect of lowering the noise floor by adding the four CS2s on top of the Daizas is nothing short of revelatory. And that’s on top of a system performance led by the Taiko Extreme that was already extremely (pun intended) engaging.
Next step is to add another Daiza under the CS2s. We shall see.
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