Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[oldmustang]

Is there a reason why are you doing listening test while doing a backup? My advice would be to do all of your backups like 2 or 3 AM or when no one is on your network. If you are pulling music from your NAS while doing a backup one would expect a negative effect.

If I understand your network, you have your Extreme connected to your DSL Modem via an ethernet port. You then have the rest of your home network via a switch connected to the other port on your DSL Modem. So these are two different networks. Is there a reason why you have them on different networks?

Now if you are pulling music locally from your Extreme while doing a backup and you notice a negative effect that is something different.

I'm not trying to have you change anything, I'm just trying to understand your setup.

The reason is the request by Emile and a few others to collect data to assess the impact of network traffic on sound quality. The discussion occurred a few pages back, you must have missed it. I normally initiate back ups before going to bed for the very reason you mention.

Actually, they are not two different networks as I've implemented it -- both parts, that is, the feed to the Extreme and the feed to the rest of my home LAN are both on the same subnet.

Thank you for your interest.

Steve Z

 

[Taiko Audio]

I finally had some time to do a few network traffic experiments to assess the impact of traffic on sound quality. Here's what I heard when I started loading up my very simple network.

First a brief description of my home network:

Slow "high-speed" internet via DSL (12mbps down/1.2mbps up) via a ActionTec 1900C combination modem/router (powered by a JS-2 linear power supply).

From one of the RJ-45 ports on the router part of the DSL modem the path is via UTP copper jumper > OpticalModule (with a Sonore Signature linear power supply further regulated by a two-stage DXP regulator) > Finisar SFP > fiber optic cable > Finisar SFP intalled in my Extreme's SFP cage.

From another RJ-45 power on the modem's router the path is via UTP copper jumper > Startech FMC (regulated linear power supply wall wart) > PlanetTech SFP > short fiber optic jumper > Planet Tech SFP > Startech FMC (regulated linear power supply wall wart) > UTP copper ethernet jumper > Netgear GS105 unmanaged switch (regulated linear power supply wall wart) > the rest of my home LAN, including three NAS, upstairs and downstairs AV systems all connected by UTP copper ethernet cable.

I tried the following:

1. listening to music while running a NAS to NAS back up.

2. listening to music while streaming a Netflix movie.

3. listening to music while running an Extreme to NAS back up.

1. and 2. both exhibited a slight degradation of sound quality.

The magnitude sounded about the same doing the NAS to NAS back up whether listening to local content or streaming tracks for 1.

For experiment 2., the sound quality sounded slightly worse for streamed content vs local files. Not surprisingly given my very slow internet speeds, streamed content took much longer to buffer and begin playing, so perhaps my impatience somewhat colored my perceptions.

3. Running a backup of the Exteme music files to a NAS. This exhibited a greater decrease in sound quality than either 1. or 2. Music was still far from being unlistenable, however it was still noticeably worse than 1. or 2. I'd say that the sound quality hit was on the order of switching from TAS to Roon -- grayer and flatter than TAS playback when not doing network intensive things.

So, this is my particular experience with a simple home LAN. Hopefully there is something in this that is helpful.

Steve Z

Thank you Steve, this is very valuable feedback. Experiment 3 having the most negative impact is not surprising as that would create continuous disk and network activity on the Extreme itself. Interesting is streaming content being more affected then local files while the file is fully cached, the question is how much of a factor your restricted bandwidth is here.

 

[dminches]

Playlists in TAS

I have never created a playlist in TAS. I added a bunch of tracks to the queue and tried to save it and got a “Network Error”. Is this not how one does it?

 

[oldmustang]

Thank you Steve, this is very valuable feedback. Experiment 3 having the most negative impact is not surprising as that would create continuous disk and network activity on the Extreme itself. Interesting is streaming content being more affected then local files while the file is fully cached, the question is how much of a factor your restricted bandwidth is here.

You’re welcome, Emile. I was curious about that same thing — since the streaming files are fully cached before play I’m puzzled why it would make a sonic difference to files resident on the Extreme. My very slow internet is a constant frustration. I find it ironic that almost in the shadow of Seattle WA, one of the tech capitals of the world, that the fastest internet I can currently get is only one step above dial-up. I’m on the waiting list for Elon Musk’s Starlink service and it can’t come soon enough as far as I’m concerned!

I’ll try more experiments between streaming and local playback with a busy network to confirm my impressions and will share what I hear with the group.

Steve Z

 

[kswanson27]

Recently the TAS "play album starting at track" option has become come confused. The selected track plays but the next track it selects is never the next one on the album. It's two, three or five tracks ahead of the one just played. It used to work fine. Anyone else having this problem?

 

[oldmustang]

Recently the TAS "play album starting at track" option has become come confused. The selected track plays but the next track it selects is never the next one on the album. It's two, three or five tracks ahead of the one just played. It used to work fine. Anyone else having this problem?

That's a new one on me. Did you check that that random play icon wasn't clicked?

Steve Z

 

[kswanson27]

No. Where is the random play icon?

 

[dminches]

That's a new one on me. Did you check that that random play icon wasn't clicked?

Steve Z

What he described is exactly what I experienced when the random play icon was selected.

 

[dminches]

What he described is exactly what I experienced when the random play icon was selected.

 

[kswanson27]

That was it. The cat must have done it. Thanks guys.

 

[oldmustang]

That was it. The cat must have done it. Thanks guys.

Beat me to it @dminches. Glad it was something simple. Pro hint -- there is actually a pdf "manual" for TAS that Taiko has provided. . .

Not that I ever read the manual (until I'm stuck!)

Steve Z

 

[Steve williams]

When all else fails, read the instruction manual. I had almost the same problem a few months ago when the same track kept playing. I couldn’t figure out why until Ed told me the replay button must be pushed. Duh. Problem solved

 

[kswanson27]

When all else fails, read the instruction manual. I had almost the same problem a few months ago when the same track kept playing. I couldn’t figure out why until Ed told me the replay button must be pushed. Duh. Problem solved

I'm ashamed to admit it but the TAS manual is right here on my desktop. Never thought to look at it. Lesson learned.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Beat me to it @dminches. Glad it was something simple. Pro hint -- there is actually a pdf "manual" for TAS that Taiko has provided. . .

Not that I ever read the manual (until I'm stuck!)

Steve Z

Thank you for providing that excellent customer support Steve

 

[cat6man]

When all else fails, read the instruction manual.

But ONLY as a last resort!
(An engineer's credo)

 

[Kris]

I did some testing and I must say the Router is like preamp In digital domain.
The settings you use are critical for the good outcome and perfect SQ.

I need little more data to compare some models.
Emile has Ubiquiti Dream Machine pro, most of the others are on lower quality , low speed routing.
Would Extreme users mind sharing what Router you use in you top equipement ?
I hope you can share what you use except of Qubiquiti routers that I already checked , cisco 4500 , And Nighthawk.

Also what is the cable lengh you have from router to you Extreme and what cat ?
it looks from my testing the longer the better outcomes and the cat 5a seems the best in comparison to shilded cat 7 and 8 ethernet cables.
some of you might run the optical / sfp and 5hat info is also valuable for me.
I hope to be able to get some conclusions of this testing, but need info from you,

Who has a very expensive router in the system (like managed cisco)?
I believe Taiko distributors might be on that kind of higher end Router service in their stores.
Can Taiko distributors share also what router model thay use ?
Thank to all in advance for sharing.

 

[Kris]

Quick question to Emile.
Is the current setting of MTU 9000 in Extreme ?
To do not got fragmented stream data we need to have same number on the router As far as I know.
You mentioned you have value of 9000 in your Dream machine pro.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...if this is an optimization setting between the ISP and the local
network router, I wonder if this is a set-it-and-forget it concept, or if it requires periodic monitoring for changes. I *think* some network gear does the auditing/adjusting automatically, doesn't it?

 

[Steve Vu]

I did some testing and I must say the Router is like preamp In digital domain.
The settings you use are critical for the good outcome and perfect SQ.

I need little more data to compare some models.
Emile has Ubiquiti Dream Machine pro, most of the others are on lower quality , low speed routing.
Would Extreme users mind sharing what Router you use in you top equipement ?
I hope you can share what you use except of Qubiquiti routers that I already checked , cisco 4500 , And Nighthawk.

Also what is the cable lengh you have from router to you Extreme and what cat ?
it looks from my testing the longer the better outcomes and the cat 5a seems the best in comparison to shilded cat 7 and 8 ethernet cables.
some of you might run the optical / sfp and 5hat info is also valuable for me.
I hope to be able to get some conclusions of this testing, but need info from you,

Who has a very expensive router in the system (like managed cisco)?
I believe Taiko distributors might be on that kind of higher end Router service in their stores.
Can Taiko distributors share also what router model thay use ?
Thank to all in advance for sharing.

You can try Waversa Wrouter, only for your audio system.

 

[Taiko Audio]

...if this is an optimization setting between the ISP and the local
network router, I wonder if this is a set-it-and-forget it concept, or if it requires periodic monitoring for changes. I *think* some network gear does the auditing/adjusting automatically, doesn't it?

Yes I think so, we're probably at this large value because we have a 1Gb up/down link.