Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[nonesup]

Ok

 

[simorag]

2) We want XDMS to provide added functionality, like support for streaming services which are not supported by Roon. Ofcourse that will have to come in stages but ultimately we’d like you to be able to stream anything to the Extreme, even youtube video for example.

Wow, I use YouTube a lot for education, information and fun purposes. Getting the sound through the Extreme to my headphones rig would be great (of course no critical listening involved)!

 

[bryans]

2) We want XDMS to provide added functionality, like support for streaming services which are not supported by Roon.

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying you want XDMS to support streaming service beyond Qobuz and Tidal?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying you want XDMS to support streaming service beyond Qobuz and Tidal?

It already does.

 

[bryans]

It already does.

Can you elaborate on this? Which services, etc.?

 

[EuroDriver]

Can you elaborate on this? Which services, etc.?

Idagio is one of the interesting streaming services with a focus on Classical Music

About | IDAGIO

The ultimate classical music collection in one app âExclusive video concerts âLossless sound quality âBest search âCurated by performers and experts â· Discover IDAGIO now

about.idagio.com

 

[Taiko Audio]

Dear TAS BETA user group. A lot of time has passed since we launched the TAS BETA program and it appears a refresher of its objectives is in order. The current BETA version of TAS only exists for Sound Quality evaluation purposes. The frontend which you are using right now navigate and select your music is called Logitech Media Server, Logitech Media Server - Wikipedia. Logitech Media Server has web browser based remote control functionality which we have wrapped into an app framework which allows you to switch between Roon and Logitech Media Server. Logitech Media Server normally plays files to a player called Squeezelite. Although this is a lightweight solution, on the Extreme, it currently sounds inferior to Roon. We have developed bridges which act like sqeeuzelite on the input side, and stream to our own developed player, named "Extreme Direct Player", or HQPlayer. Logitech Media Server is open source, you are allowed to use it as long as you give something back to the community. Which is why we will share our bridge code with the world when we are finished with it so Logitech Media Server can be used as a frontend to HQPlayer or other 3rd party players.

I will repost the diagram we published a while ago for those who missed it in this by now humongous thread:

View attachment 81054



All the green pieces are our own code, the red, although it looks more like orange pieces are 3rd party code.

Now, and this is important, we are not going to spend time rewriting parts of Logitech Media Server. The interface you are using right now (Logitech Media Server) is not going to be part of TAS when it comes out of BETA. You are only using Logitech Media Server right now to have a means to route downloaded files, Tidal and Qobuz streams to our Extreme Direct Player and subsequently to our USB driver and firmware for Sound Quality evaluation purposes.

The current progress is slower then we would have liked, the virus has had and is still impacting progress, we have perhaps accepted too many participants in the BETA program (around 200 now), which results in quite excessive support demands, me and Edward spend at least 75% of our time on TAS support (mainly the Logitech part), some participants require no help at all, others need almost daily support, although this significantly slows down development we do not consider it as time wasted as it has given us a very clear view of what the future interface should look and feel like.

On to where we are now:

-We have the Extreme Direct player which has several unique features of which we are pretty sure do not exist in other players, this mainly determines the Sound Quality bit, all ~200 beta testers are unanimous in that it sounds better then Roon.
-We have the Taiko ASIO/USB driver with some other unique features to which we have added support for around 50 different DACs now, with more being added on an almost weekly basis. This is not only benefits the Extreme Direct Player, it also enhances Roon's Sound Quality.
-We have the bridges but as their only purpose is to interface Logitech Media Server to our player, those will be discarded and "given" to the Logitech community as a thank you for all the hard work put in by all the volunteers maintaining the platform, these also "break" server-player communication, which is why you can't currently pause tracks, nor manipulate the track progress bar.
-We have a new server to replace Logitech Media Server, it's called "XDMS" for Extreme Direct Media Server. This includes a filesystem scanner and metadata builder, and yes it supports foreign character sets. We are currently working on the signalling/bidirectional communication between server and player to not affect Sound Quality. This new server can be fully controlled from a web browser or from an app.
-We are working on integrating the following streaming services: Tidal, Qobuz, Amazon Music, Deezer, Highresaudio, Napster, Soundmachine and a whole range of internet radio stations/services. We are basically looking to integrate any streaming service allowing 3rd party application integration. There are 2 services which don't allow this by policy, being Apple Music and Spotify, those 2 only allow access to their content through their own apps.

As for your complaints about the Logitech interface look and feel, we do not forward those to the Logitech development community as virtually all of them are being posted on the Logitech forums, we solve most support issues/questions by searching those forums ourselves. Although we had Wilson fixing several Logitech related bugs in the first few months of the BETA, we have now pulled him from those duties so he can spend his time on further developing TAS.

Against better judgment I'll share a few screenshots of a functional server / player we're working on now which does not use and 3rd party code. Most time is spend on functionality so the interface is now "simple" but functional:


Album list view:

View attachment 81057

Album view:

View attachment 81058

Queue view, and yes this plays gapless:

View attachment 81059

Browse selection menu:

View attachment 81055

Single page for settings, in debug mode for our purposes, this will also allow starting Roon etc:

View attachment 81056

Playing from the queue, gapless and you have pause / track control:

View attachment 81060

To see this post including photos click “Taiko Audio said” at the top of the quote.

 

[Taiko Audio]

XMDS update:

A lot of progress has been made on XDMS. We have achieved successful native integration of a multitude of streaming services, Qobuz, Tidal, Deezer, Amazon etc. We are currently working on Spotify connect and on a Roon to XDMS playlist conversion engine. We are aiming for a before Christmas initial release, but no hard promises

USB driver update:

The support list is still growing, we have now added support for the following DACs:

-Analog Domain DAC1

-APL DSD-MR

-APL DSD-SR

-Anthem STR

-Aries Cerat Helene

-Aries Cerat Kassandra

-Aqua Formula xHD V2.0

-Aqua La Scala

-B&O Beolab 50

-Boulder 2120

-Bricasti MDxx

-Brinkmann Nyquist

-CH Precision

-DCS Rossini

-DCS Rossini Player

-DCS Vivaldi

-DCS Vivaldi Up-sampler

-DCS Vivaldi One

-Denafrips Gaia

-Denafrips Terminator Plus

-EMM Labs DAC2V2

-EMM Labs DAC2X

-Esoteric Grandioso D1X

-Esoteric K-01X

-Esoteric K-01XD

-Esoteric K-03

-Gustard X26 Pro

-Holo Audio May

-Ideon Absolute

-Lampizator (all models with a jlsounds interface)

-LH Davinci MKII

-Meitner XDS1 V3

-MSB Pro USB

-MSB V / Quad

-Mutec MC-3+

-Nagra HD-X

-Nagra Tube Dac

-Pilium Elektra

-Resolution Audio Cantata 3.0

-Sennheiser HE-1

-Singxer SU-6

-SoTM dx-usbHD

-Soulution 330

-Soulution 760

-T+A 3100 series

-Thrax Maximinus

-Totaldac

-Trinity 1st gen model

-Trinity Reference

-Vinnie Rossi L2

-Vitus

-Weiss DAC-501

-Ypsilon 1000

 

[adyc]

Will XDMS has custom browse feature like Jriver? This is one feature I can’t live without. Roon does not have this function. And this stops me from buying an Extreme.

 

[kswanson27]

Idagio is one of the interesting streaming services with a focus on Classical Music

About | IDAGIO

The ultimate classical music collection in one app âExclusive video concerts âLossless sound quality âBest search âCurated by performers and experts â· Discover IDAGIO now

about.idagio.com

How do I stream this with the Extreme?

 

[steve williams]

How do I stream this with the Extreme?

You’ll need XDMS and a subscription to Idagio I’m guessing

 

[kswanson27]

You’ll need XDMS and a subscription to Idagio I’m guessing

I just read through the last few posts and that makes sense.

 

[oldmustang]

I won’t be able to listen to Roon 882 till Monday. XDMS sound quality, imho, is a significant step up over TAS. Eliminating the Logitech Media Server front-end makes a substantial difference, it has been holding TAS back.

XDMS will ship with new Extremes once launched, aswell as Roon.

XDMS is about more then just sound quality though.

1) We will have something with guaruanteed performance, I’d say it will be a good thing to not be completely at the mercy of third party software.
2) We want XDMS to provide added functionality, like support for streaming services which are not supported by Roon. Ofcourse that will have to come in stages but ultimately we’d like you to be able to stream anything to the Extreme, even youtube video for example.

One possible explanation for improved Roon sound quality is their overhaul of network behavior. Evidently they finally paid attention to the complaints about Roon constantly polling network devices, and disconnecting if they don't get an response back in a short period of time. Based on previous interactions with Roon staff I doubt that their impetus for this was improving sound quality but we've plenty of experience on this forum and elsewhere that minimizing network traffic has implications for better sound quality.

Steve Z

 

[oldmustang]

One possible explanation for improved Roon sound quality is their overhaul of network behavior. Evidently they finally paid attention to the complaints about Roon constantly polling network devices, and disconnecting if they don't get an response back in a short period of time. Based on previous interactions with Roon staff I doubt that their impetus for this was improving sound quality but we've plenty of experience on this forum and elsewhere that minimizing network traffic has implications for better sound quality.

Steve Z

From the Roon website: Roon Fall 2021 Release
<snip>
"We’ve completely overhauled Roon’s buffering and caching infrastructure for playing streaming content. The new implementation is designed to be less demanding when interacting with your network and internet connection, making streaming music both more stable and less intensive on your Roon Core. This should minimize playback interruptions from TIDAL and Qobuz, as well as making it possible for people with slower internet connections and networks to have a better and more reliable experience while using Roon. It will also ensure your Roon Core is more resilient to latency issues caused by Content Delivery Networks (CDN) and the geographic distance from your source."

Steve Z

 

[Uwiik]

TAS is beta software and soon to be replaced by XDMS

The Extreme does not ship with Beta Software but TAS is available for Extreme owners who want to take the scale the summit of what’s possible in digital audio playback

Send an email to support@taikoaudio.com and we will email the manuals and schedule an online installation session. You will also receive an email invitation to install Apple Testflight and the TAS App

it takes about 15 - 30 minutes and it helps to have a PC or MAC laptop on the same network as the Extreme

After installing TAS, you can use the TAS App to switch back and forth between Roon and TAS

A radio feature is way down on the feature list for XDMS, Roon radio works nicely and its so easy to start roon from the TAS App, and in the upcoming XDMS App

Thanks a lot for the thorough explanation. I guess I will just wait for XDMS to be released. Too bad about the “radio” feature being on the bottom of development priority for XDMS, my schedule is waking up, turn on audio, go on about with my life, get sleepy, turn off audio, go to sleep. A lot of time I just can’t be bothered with going back and forth to my room to select song when playback of a few albums comes to a halt….Roon “Radio” is a God sent feature for me.

 

[Uwiik]

A few more questions if nobody’s mind;

-When I want to repeat a sub optimum rip, do I just go to the Taiko Extreme IP address, highlights the album, right click and send to trash? Or something else needed to ensure thorough deletion?

-Should I upsample redbook CD to DSD64 or just leave it as it is? I usually just leave it at FLAC Lossless Uncompressed. I am using the fantastic dBpoweramp by the way.

Finally, WOW I never thought how fun ripping CDs can be!!

 

[Taiko Audio]

A few more questions if nobody’s mind;

-When I want to repeat a sub optimum rip, do I just go to the Taiko Extreme IP address, highlights the album, right click and send to trash? Or something else needed to ensure thorough deletion?

-Should I upsample redbook CD to DSD64 or just leave it as it is? I usually just leave it at FLAC Lossless Uncompressed. I am using the fantastic dBpoweramp by the way.

Finally, WOW I never thought how fun ripping CDs can be!!

1) Yes that works fine
2) I’d say leave as is

Happy you’re having fun

 

[ctydwn]

Looking forward to part 2 w Emile and Jay available shortly. Should cover a variety of topics. Thanks again for sharing these discussions.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

One possible explanation for improved Roon sound quality is their overhaul of network behavior. Evidently they finally paid attention to the complaints about Roon constantly polling network devices, and disconnecting if they don't get an response back in a short period of time. Based on previous interactions with Roon staff I doubt that their impetus for this was improving sound quality but we've plenty of experience on this forum and elsewhere that minimizing network traffic has implications for better sound quality.

I agree and I don't think It makes any sense that Extreme users should to be "worried" about Roon SQ being slightly improved, if Roon can improve it's a good thing for everyone but imho it would likely take quite a bit more than a few network optimizations for them to reach a level of something built exclusively for maximum audio performance where every code change is evaluated for a possible negative impact on sound. Roon's customer focus and main use case is different than that of Extreme and TAS/XDMS users.

I've had a journey myself for the last year going from Roon to Euphony Stylus to HQPlayer to JPLAY Femto, every time trying to go back to Roon because I do like it from a UX/UI perspective, but here I am, still using something else and it just gets more and more difficult to look back. I think Roon has its strengths where it's best in class and where Roon has actually influenced other software to up their games, competition is good, and so is choice. it's nothing wrong with running Roon on an Extreme, although I would personally be very(!) curious about XDMS...

love the interview btw! looking forward to a factory tour next...

 

[nenon]

Looking forward to part 2 w Emile and Jay available shortly. Should cover a variety of topics. Thanks again for sharing these discussions.

The video should be renamed to "Jay self-interviewing himself in front of Emile".
Emile barely had a chance to talk...