I could absolutely see this happening with a new MSB input module. Many of us switched from the Renderer/Ethernet module to the Pro-USB at home, a few years ago.
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
I could absolutely see this happening with a new MSB input module. Many of us switched from the Renderer/Ethernet module to the Pro-USB at home, a few years ago.
I think Emile mentioned that the Taiko router could have a potential of replacing the modem
BUT your ISP migth not aloud that . This is something to find out,
They sometimes have to have their own modems in network , as they can keep the controll of many things including speeds and safety .
Fortunatelly we all know that there is a way to copy those credidentials from modem
and to enter them into the new modem or router So it all remains the same in softwere domain.
Not sure if we can mimic MAC address of the ISP modem but it should be possible in majority to replace a modem with Taiko router.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Christiaan Punter
Well-Known Member
I am indeed but was on a 2-week holiday and am catching up on what I missed
Christiaan Punter
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I can confirm this. With several servers and using local library music playback, I have repeatedly heard differences in the sound when using different ethernet cables, ethernet insulators/filters, wifi to ethernet converters, or no cables. I've yet to hear the new Taiko products but when I have had a chance to compare the various options, I will be sure to post my impressions.
International system:
Specifications:
- Dimensions 22 x 22 x 5 cm
- Weight: 15 Kg
- Color: Chrome Polished
- 2 SFP+ ports
Question about TACDA. Will it have any Digital Input(s) to take advantage of its capabilities?
Christiaan Punter
Well-Known Member
FWIW, I just checked with the Extreme running XDMS and the CH Precision C1 (DoP), I do indeed see the C1's display jump to 176kHz for a second before it goes back to DSD in between DSD tracks. There's silence in between the tracks from the speakers, I do not hear any pops.
"Sure it may outperform 10-20k DACs" That would suit a lot of people! would you consider releasing to non Extreme owners?We're not DAC designers, the innovation is in the superior interface, we've incorporated a Rohm BD34301EKV DAC chip because we thought it sounded best of the available "off the shelf" DAC chips and added a JFET class A output stage, but that's about all we could fit on a PCIe card sized PCB. Sure it may outperform 10-20K DACs but to directly compete with a top level DAC like a Lampizator Horizon, MSB Select 2, or Totaldac D1-12 is a bit much to ask for
Christiaan Punter
Well-Known Member
Indeed, Emile mentioned expecting the first production batch of router PCBs to be in Oldenzaal in about 8 weeks, meaning shipping may start early April 2023. But do please keep in mind that this is only an estimation;-)
Please correct me if I'm wrong Emile...
Usually the topology is internet - modem (coax, fibre, DSL copper, analog, etc) - router - switch - computer. Mainstream routers and those provided by your ISP often include a modem and some switching functionality. The Taiko router will be a classical router without a dedicated modem with the potential exception of fibre internet. Meaning:
Case 1: you have NO fibre internet (DSL or coax copper, analog or similar) --> you will need to use your existing modem and connect this to the configured WAN port of the Taiko router.
If you currently have a router including the modem provided by your ISP (internet service provider), there are three options...
Case 1a: your ISP allows you to replace the all in one router with a dedicated modem (DSL, coax, etc). This leads to case 1.
Case 1b: you have to use the ISP's all in one router but it can be configured in bridge mode (either by yourself or by your ISP). This leads again to case 1 as it configures your device as modem, de-activating the router, switch, wifi, etc.
However some of the ISPs don't allow you to use your own router and force you to use their's. This leads to case 1b...
Case 1b: your ISP forces you to use their all in one router. In this case you can only use the Taiko router subsequent to your ISP device.
Case 2: you have fibre internet and your ISP provided you with a specific SFP fibre module.
Case 2a: Also in this case, some of the ISPs force you to use their all in one device which leads us to case 1b. But if you're lucky, your ISP allows you to use an own router of your choice - jackpot! This leads us to case 2b...
Case 2b: your fibre ISP allows you to use an own router. In this case you can configure the SFP port on the Taiko router as WAN port and directly use the SFP module provided by your ISP to connect to the internet without any other modem. Usually this involves some configuration in router according to ISP advice (e.g. VLAN and DHCP option). I assume that the Taiko router will be able to support this.
So hands down, it will depend on your situation, internet technology and ISP which topology applies.
My assumption is that scenario 2b is the most promising option for maximum sonic impact and therefore I would check which available ISP allows you to use your own fibre router (in case fibre is available in your location).
@engadin as you are living in Switzerland... In case you have access to fibre, 2 ISPs I know of that do so are Unit7 and Sunrise but others may as well.
I hope I could help to shed some light into this topic. Please feel free to ask if something is still unclear.
Markus
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Christiaan Punter
Well-Known Member
At this point that's a little premature. Several aspects are still up in the air.
Re: Taiko router
I'm already in on the switch bundle but I can't imagine using the router as my main home router. I cannot see how it would be able to support the full range of security features and Network management tools. For example, most routers out there today have different sets of capabilities, from the castrated FiOS routers in the US (with their tiny nat address spaces) to semi-pro routers designed to manage a range of other products specific to that company. Even if not needed for audio, I need vlan or subnets for the iot devices in my house that I don't want co-mingled with the rest of my home network (e.g. the folks who want access to my home sprinkler system to blow it out before the winter freeze as well as the weather service it uses to adjust the watering schedule).
On top of that, Verizon won't even talk to me if there is a problem since I already don't use their router. Who will support the users who don't have the technical ability to deal with this? " Hello Verizon. My music optimized router isn't working ". Taiko has the best customer service out there but I can't imagine how you'll support this across the world's varying ISP standards. Poor Ed will never get to sleep
If I understand correctly (maybe I don't), the main benefit of the router is offloading some xdms functionality to the router so that less processing is done in the extreme. If so, and if the SQ gain is sufficient, I'd probably go with my existing router with one output going to the new taiko router which would then feed the new switch.
I'm already in on the switch bundle but I can't imagine using the router as my main home router. I cannot see how it would be able to support the full range of security features and Network management tools. For example, most routers out there today have different sets of capabilities, from the castrated FiOS routers in the US (with their tiny nat address spaces) to semi-pro routers designed to manage a range of other products specific to that company. Even if not needed for audio, I need vlan or subnets for the iot devices in my house that I don't want co-mingled with the rest of my home network (e.g. the folks who want access to my home sprinkler system to blow it out before the winter freeze as well as the weather service it uses to adjust the watering schedule).
On top of that, Verizon won't even talk to me if there is a problem since I already don't use their router. Who will support the users who don't have the technical ability to deal with this? " Hello Verizon. My music optimized router isn't working ". Taiko has the best customer service out there but I can't imagine how you'll support this across the world's varying ISP standards. Poor Ed will never get to sleep
If I understand correctly (maybe I don't), the main benefit of the router is offloading some xdms functionality to the router so that less processing is done in the extreme. If so, and if the SQ gain is sufficient, I'd probably go with my existing router with one output going to the new taiko router which would then feed the new switch.
The same for me. As far I know VoiP only works on the supplied router, that although it is based on a standard machine has custom developed software.
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As Emile already mentioned, the Taiko switch is not a classical switch by design but rather a fibre media converter. A switch is used to route data between multiple devices in your LAN whereas the Taiko switch only has 1 input and 1 output. My guess is that it is mainly used for network isolation and reclocking and most likely an extra portion of Taiko magic that will not be fully disclosed. But this Emile would need to answer
This means however, that the Extreme is still exposed to the rest of the chatty LAN and likewise to the internet. This is where the router will come into play. As I already wrote in my last post above, every router has some switching functionality - some more, some less (layer 1 to 3 usually). This becomes obvious as the router has 4 LAN ports and will route data between the connected devices/switches.
Emile already mentioned that we can setup a dedicated hifi network on the Taiko router which indicates to me that the Taiko router will be capable of VLANs and most likely an own IOT VLAN for isolation as well as some special treatment for a connected wireless access point is already considered. This will help to to reduce the network traffic to the Extreme to a minimum including rules to for example only allowing your tablet and smartphone to remote control your player software on the Extreme and nothing more.
For streaming I assume the router will furthermore improve the quality and Emile hinted to some sort of further streaming pre-optimization that can be run on the Taiko router.
Concerning security Emile already mentioned that it will by far better the usual routers on the (consumer) market which is also one of the reasons why the developments took longer than expected.
I am really excited for all the upcoming products and have started saving. I will definitely be ordering the router, switch and network card at some point. However my highest priority at the moment is the big BPS as we are unfortunately having so much energy pollution from solar cells and heat pumps and whatever else around that I can sometimes even hear my Extreme hum from 1m away!
Markus
This means however, that the Extreme is still exposed to the rest of the chatty LAN and likewise to the internet. This is where the router will come into play. As I already wrote in my last post above, every router has some switching functionality - some more, some less (layer 1 to 3 usually). This becomes obvious as the router has 4 LAN ports and will route data between the connected devices/switches.
Emile already mentioned that we can setup a dedicated hifi network on the Taiko router which indicates to me that the Taiko router will be capable of VLANs and most likely an own IOT VLAN for isolation as well as some special treatment for a connected wireless access point is already considered. This will help to to reduce the network traffic to the Extreme to a minimum including rules to for example only allowing your tablet and smartphone to remote control your player software on the Extreme and nothing more.
For streaming I assume the router will furthermore improve the quality and Emile hinted to some sort of further streaming pre-optimization that can be run on the Taiko router.
Concerning security Emile already mentioned that it will by far better the usual routers on the (consumer) market which is also one of the reasons why the developments took longer than expected.
I am really excited for all the upcoming products and have started saving. I will definitely be ordering the router, switch and network card at some point. However my highest priority at the moment is the big BPS as we are unfortunately having so much energy pollution from solar cells and heat pumps and whatever else around that I can sometimes even hear my Extreme hum from 1m away!
Markus
That is what I am planning on doing as well. I currently have an 8Switch in my main system rack which feeds the Extreme, 2 DAC’s and a Melco N1-A which I use to backup the Extreme hard drive. My assumption is that I can use the Taiko router in the rack to replace the 8Switch. Luckily, the Taiko router has 4 outputs which is perfect for me - one will feed Taiko switch leaving 3 for the other devices.
My main router will remain where it is. I have a commercial grade setup with multiple switching banks which control the whole house automation. I used to use a twin balanced power supply which I bought for a Chord Dave and Blu II and this was very effective in ring-fencing the noise that they generated. Since I no longer have the Dave, I tried using that power supply to power the router and another 8Switch which I used to separate the ethernet cables supplying the music room and the movie room from the rest of the house. This gave a decent benefit in both rooms and I am consequently very optimistic about the improvements that the new Taiko devices might yield.
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