Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[microstrip]

Unfortunately I cannot make foolproof recommendations here as the network setups / environments are different everywhere. Similar to a powercord, interconnect or a footer not having the same effect in every system.

Some examples:
-Most people do prefer using the fiber network input of the Extreme with the Startech components recommended by me earlier in the thread. But if you use a 2 meter fiber optic cable to a SMPS powered FMC which plugs into the same circuit, you will likely not be happy. If you have a 10 meter or longer fiber optic cable and the SMPS powered FMC is spaced well away from your system, most people like it. This is an area where powering the FMC with a Linear Power Supply can help. But Linear Powersupplies have their signature too. I have customer feedback where they replaced that SMPS with a LPS and are not happy with the result.
(...)

Just to situate us in this long evolving thread - the list referred by Mike Lavigne in post # 560 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...treme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-582269 is still the top for those trying the optical way?

 

[steve williams]

Just to situate us in this long evolving thread - the list referred by Mike Lavigne in post # 560 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-582269 is still the top for those trying the optical way?

But now that all of Mike's library is sitting on the 16TB of internal memory cards in the Extreme I am betting he isn't using that any more

I too have my entire library that Emile loaded from my NAS on to the internal cards of the Extreme. I personally have no desire to add anything more to what I have as to my ears the sound is just "right"

 

[Taiko Audio]

Just to situate us in this long evolving thread - the list referred by Mike Lavigne in post # 560 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko-audio-sgm-extreme-the-crème-de-la-crème.27433/post-582269 is still the top for those trying the optical way?

It is.

 

[CKKeung]

I must have gotten lucky as for me and my ears I get what I consider fabulous sound

I use only the following

1. Triode Wire Labs Ethernet Cable from router to Extreme
2. Masterbuilt Ultra USB cable from Extreme to a 12 year old DAC via a USB Xlll Box with optical fiber from the box to the DAC
3. Center Stage 1.5 footers under the Extreme
4. Same Center Stage Feet are between the Extreme and the top top of my Masterbuilt Shelf
I have zero desire to do anything else as I am not hearing anything else(except great music) that would make me want to add anything else in the signal pathway
The responsiveness of the Extreme to quickly change from one format to another is simply impressive. I am a happy camper with my set up the way it is

Only other change I am making involves a new DAC set to arrive next month. In the meanwhile using my PlayBack Designs MP S-5 allows me to play files up to 384 and DSD256

Hello Steve,
May I know which new dac will arrive at your home next month?
Thanks!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

But now that all of Mike's library is sitting on the 16TB of internal memory cards in the Extreme I am betting he isn't using that any more

I too have my entire library that Emile loaded from my NAS on to the internal cards of the Extreme. I personally have no desire to add anything more to what I have as to my ears the sound is just "right"

these added fibre optic pieces of my network (that replaced the copper Ethenet cable) boost the streaming performance; since they lower noise they may also boost the file performance on my PCIe drives but i can't recall. maybe Emile can comment.

 

[microstrip]

these added fibre optic pieces of my network (that replaced the copper Ethenet cable) boost the streaming performance; since they lower noise they may also boost the file performance on my PCIe drives but i can't recall. maybe Emile can comment.

I noticed a small difference in sound quality when I took the network cable out of the Extreme when playing files from PCIe drives . It is why I am interested in trying optimal fibre optics - I currently just have an optical link using TPlink media converters before the listening room Netgear 108 router .

 

[Taiko Audio]

I wish it would only affect streaming performance, but it also affects local file playback, though to a lesser degree. The good thing about it is it does not "break the bank" at around ~USD 350, ~Euro 425.

 

[Taiko Audio]

I noticed a small difference in sound quality when I took the network cable out of the Extreme when playing files from PCIe drives . It is why I am interested in trying optimal fibre optics - I currently just have an optical link using TPlink media converters before the listening room Netgear 108 router .

Thank you for reporting, a prime example of why I don't want to stress it's importance with the Extreme.

Edit: Ofcourse the same may not apply to different environments! And you already have a fiber link "in the chain".

 

[microstrip]

Thank you for reporting, a prime example of why I don't want to stress it's importance with the Extreme.

Edit: Ofcourse the same may not apply to different environments! And you already have a fiber link "in the chain".

Just to be more precise, the fiber link was not used in this particular test.

 

[dminches]

One of the good things about the EtherRegen is that is can convert cooper ethernet to fiber optical. It will definitely outperform the $50 FMCs that serve that function.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Just to be more precise, the fiber link was not used in this particular test.

Interesting. I do like and still use the GS108 myself. It's a solid performer. There are higher performance switches but they also tend to introduce "problems".

 

[Kris]

Interesting. I do like and still use the GS108 myself. It's a solid performer. There are higher performance switches but they also tend to introduce "problems".

Is the Qnap QSW 308 worst than netgear gs108 in your system Emile ?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Is the Qnap QSW 308 worst than netgear gs108 in your system Emile ?

Overall yes. However there are multiple parts to the equation as we’re running at 10G speeds now, so the network card and SFP+ modules are a part of the result.

I have tested several cards and SFP+ modules with varying degrees of success. One of the issues is the better sounding SFP+ modules do not work with the better sounding network cards, or they don’t work with the QSW-308.

Copper DAC (Direct Attach Cables) are promising performers but the passive ones only work up to 7 meters, active up to 15 meters.

Finisar makes “reclocking” SFP+ modules which are interesting, very precise, very low background noise, but harmonically pale.

Generally speaking I can get higher resolution, more focus and precision and an even lower background noise but it gives the music a mechanical quality I find very unattractive.

The best I’ve heard remains industrial grade M12 networking. However ~USD 5000 for a switch is a tough pill to swallow. I’m experimenting with cheaper M12 switches.

So for now, I’m sticking to my previous recommendations.

 

[LeBlanc]

JPlay also has a slightly cheaper M12 alternative to the gold model, which costs EUR 2,550: https://jcat.eu/product/m12-switch-magic/.

 

[nonesup]

Hi Emil.
There is something I would like to know. I have read that with several of your clients, you had to connect to their Extreme and copy their files from their NAS to the Extreme. In my case when I bought Melco, the copy from my old NAS to Melco, it was extraordinarily simple, from a Windows PC on the same network as NAS and Melco, I saw the disks of both in my File Explorer, the copy was made with COPY from NAS and PASTE in Melco.
Can't you see Extreme on the net to do that?

 

[steve williams]

Hi Emil.
There is something I would like to know. I have read that with several of your clients, you had to connect to their Extreme and copy their files from their NAS to the Extreme. In my case when I bought Melco, the copy from my old NAS to Melco, it was extraordinarily simple, from a Windows PC on the same network as NAS and Melco, I saw the disks of both in my File Explorer, the copy was made with COPY from NAS and PASTE in Melco.
Can't you see Extreme on the net to do that?

When Emile arrived at my house I was in the process of transferring my NAS files to the internal cards on the extreme via my Mac Book Pro hooked to the router which then connects via Ethernet to the Extreme. It had taken me 3 days to copy 1/3 of my files

Emile made the point that I was limited by my MBP to a transfer rate of 100 mb/second whereas he said if we used the Extreme to do the job the transfer rate is 1 GB/sec

He worked his magic and copied the balance of my NAS files to the Extreme in 6 hours

 

[nonesup]

Ok, Emile entered Extreme (Windows O.P) and from there copied the files from NAS to Extreme.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi Emil.
There is something I would like to know. I have read that with several of your clients, you had to connect to their Extreme and copy their files from their NAS to the Extreme. In my case when I bought Melco, the copy from my old NAS to Melco, it was extraordinarily simple, from a Windows PC on the same network as NAS and Melco, I saw the disks of both in my File Explorer, the copy was made with COPY from NAS and PASTE in Melco.
Can't you see Extreme on the net to do that?

Hi nonesup,

Yes you can do it the exact same way as with the Melco. You can copy files over the network to the Extreme from a mac or windows pc yourself.

We do always offer to copy files for our clients. Part of the service.

 

[Taiko Audio]

First Uptone Ether Regen feedback from Hong Kong:

I just received my Uptone Ether Regen. It’s quite amazing. I swapped out my modified switch and tried the ER using (A) fibre optic output (Startech) to SGM. This was already better straight out of the box (quieter and better defined bass were immediate impressions). I then used the recommended (B) copper Ethernet output to SGM. Quieter still and better throughout the spectrum. Biggest improvement was clearer separation of instruments and soundstage. I could also hear instruments that used to come straight out of speakers to being positioned behind speakers to create better layering. I then wanted to try and connect from my router to my modified switch > ER (Fibre optic to (A)) > copper Ethernet to SGM. That test will have to wait.

I also tried the SOTM about two months ago. I tried single SOTM and stacked. Single ER definitely better than single but I can’t say single ER better than two stacked SOTM. They were different. I suspect stacking two ER will beat two SOTM.

Previous feedback on the SOTM:

Hi Emile - I went to the HK sotm dealer to try their SOtM sNH-10G Switch and A/B tested with my modified Switch. Their system used a sotm server. The SOtM Switch was quieter than my switch, and music was smoother, more detailed. Upon adding a second SOtM Switch (which they connected together using SOtM ethernet), the improvement was even more pronounced with instruments and vocals. I then had the SOtM switches in my home system and interestingly the improvement delta was much less. I suspect due to the isolation and other areas of optimisation in the Extreme.

 

[dctom]

As far as I’m understanding this thread the Extreme is an extremely thoroughly designed, developed and optimised piece of kit for local and remote streaming, but with the information on footers, USB cables and fibre optics, we see that its still not immune from its environment. The enemies of great digital sound are, amongst other things:

• Vibration
• Conducted EMI
• Radiated EMI and RFI
• Jitter and resulting phase noise
• Mains distortion, noise and sub optimal earthing

The Extreme has several measures to address/minimise these issues but its still vulnerable to certain aspects of its installation environment.
The casework of the Extreme is built to exclude EMI & RFI and is as optimum as it can probably get given the thorough approach.
The fibre optic input is the definitive way to isolate and therefore avoid conducted EMI and the only noise from this source is going to come from the conversion of light to volts
Vibration is still an issue and we see from previous posts that the Extreme benefits from careful siting that includes at least external vibration reduction
The Extreme includes a very robust power supply, so internal power seems to be highly optimised and stable
Which leaves; conducted and radiated EMI and RFI picked up and transmitted by cables and the mains supply and jitter and phase noise.

The EtherRegen is designed to address exactly those issues, isolating the ethernet feed from conducted noise and reclocking the data. Again as i understand, the Extreme is designed to work with asynchronous DACS, so reclocking of the incoming data stream SHOULD have no effect. However other top class installations have without exception (as far as I’m aware) always shown benefits from greater upstream clock accuracy, so its probably just as important for the Extreme. Maybe its designers could comment on internal measures taken to clean-up and retime the incoming data stream.
I’ve spent a lot of time in ridding my system of the above digital nasties and the results are considerable in terms off achieving fully immersive, highly involving, complex, natural sounding and highly addictive music. I could imagine that adding an EtherRegen could be the cherry on top of the cake....especially considering its price.

I have extensively optimised my 2pc Linux streamer with linear power supplies, specialist OS loaded to ram etc: - have had the etherRegen a few days. Brief Initial impressions display sonic improvements. I was not hearing deficiencies previously, however sound stage, width and depth, imaging and micro dynamics all enhanced.