Toward a Theory To Increase Mutual Understanding and Predictability

[morricab]

You need more current than that, at least 50a.

http://www.lammindustries.com/PRODUCTS/m12spec.html

Sorry that is a load of nonsense. Do you know how much power 50A is into a 3 ohm load? 7500 watts!! You have no idea what you are talking about. The speakers are mid 80s sensitivity and are line sources, so SPL drops off much slower with distance.

Apogee themselves claimed over 110db at 3 meters with 100 watts into 3 ohms for the Divas.

50A would vaporize the foils!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hah, that's it
Let's hope this is a good representation of what Apogees can do
Spectrals have no lack of pwr or current delivery, and Kondo should add a nice element of tube warmth
Unlike the Analysis, the sound should have plenty of grip, but will it GRIP me?

 

[Folsom]

Nm

 

[bonzo75]

Sorry that is a load of nonsense. Do you know how much power 50A is into a 3 ohm load? 7500 watts!! You have no idea what you are talking about. The speakers are mid 80s sensitivity and are line sources, so SPL drops off much slower with distance.

Apogee themselves claimed over 110db at 3 meters with 100 watts into 3 ohms for the Divas.

50A would vaporize the foils!

Here is Spectral - 90a peak current http://www.spectralaudio.com/DMA400/DMA400 Specs.htm

Here is Graz saying that 64a current is ok. http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=735&hilit=current#p4121

Here is more http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=699&p=3930&hilit=current#p3930 - you will get many such recommendations of 50a

I know SPL drops off much slower with distance, I highlighted that myself on another Apogee thread Apogee or Analysis are much louder than an equivalent sensitivity cone at 6m. The reality is that as the ribbon moves the impedance changes, or whatever the technical reason is, these monsters come alive when you put power and current into them. And they need a large room. Only then does the soundstage just layer and go wall to wall and ceiling to floor with dynamism. You have been underpowering your apogees plus in small rooms.

 

[morricab]

Divas can hit 1 ohm.

Still 2500 watts

 

[bonzo75]

Divas can hit 1 ohm.

No those are scintilla

 

[morricab]

Here is Spectral - 90a peak current http://www.spectralaudio.com/DMA400/DMA400 Specs.htm

Here is Graz saying that 64a current is ok. http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=735&hilit=current#p4121

Here is more http://www.apogeeacoustics.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=699&p=3930&hilit=current#p3930 - you will get many such recommendations of 50a

I know SPL drops off much slower with distance, I highlighted that myself on another Apogee thread Apogee or Analysis are much louder than an equivalent sensitivity cone at 6m. The reality is that as the ribbon moves the impedance changes, or whatever the technical reason is, these monsters come alive when you put power and current into them. And they need a large room. Only then does the soundstage just layer and go wall to wall and ceiling to floor with dynamism. You have been underpowering your apogees plus in small rooms.

Funny, I didn't know a Spectral amp could generate 7500 or even 2500 watts or more. You realize that number of 90A is probably into a dead short for like a few mS. It is BS for a speaker. A spectral DMA360 can make at most 720 watts into 4 ohms. That is around 13.5A. It cannot deliver more into 4ohms... a bit more into 3 ohms.

 

[Folsom]

No those are scintilla

Well I guess information on the Web is a bit loose.

 

[bonzo75]

Hah, that's it
Let's hope this is a good representation of what Apogees can do
Spectrals have no lack of pwr or current delivery, and Kondo should add a nice element of tube warmth
Unlike the Analysis, the sound should have plenty of grip, but will it GRIP me?

What you should be aware, is that Divas sometimes don't give enough bass as Duettas, and don't sound right, until one gets them right. Divas are called Divas for a reason, while Duettas are easier to set up speakers. That is as per reports. And hence, especially for restores, the benefit of listening to different restores so that you know what the differences are and what qualities can be added in.

 

[bonzo75]

It's the current for transients. Apparently the higher current capability is required for transients.

 

[morricab]

Well I guess information on the Web is a bit loose.

I think at around 10khz they might drop down below three ohms but otherwise no.

 

[morricab]

It's the current for transients. Apparently the higher current capability is required for transients.

It doesn't matter, the Spectral cannot generate 7500 watts into 3 ohms...period... even if it had dynamic power capability of 3db, which would be impressive, that still means only 1440 watts. I seriously doubt it will get even close to this "on transients".

 

[Folsom]

I think at around 10khz they might drop down below three ohms but otherwise no.

But yes. Whatever page I was on said 1 ohm. Right or wrong you can't dispute that.

 

[morricab]

But yes. Whatever page I was on said 1 ohm. Right or wrong you can't dispute that.

Can't dispute your information?? Yes I can and do.

 

[Folsom]

I think perhaps you're having trouble with language differences. I'm not saying that they hit 1 ohm, I'm saying I read they do on a website that must be wrong. To say otherwise is that I'm incapable of reading, that I'm lying, or the such. I cannot passively let that be said, a lie.

The information is not that I'm saying they hit 1 ohm, the information is I read that, so, not dispute.

 

[morricab]

I think perhaps you're having trouble with language differences. I'm not saying that they hit 1 ohm, I'm saying I read they do on a website that must be wrong. To say otherwise is that I'm incapable of reading, that I'm lying, or the such. I cannot passively let that be said, a lie.

The information is not that I'm saying they hit 1 ohm, the information is I read that, so, not dispute.

Yes, I am a native English speaker, are you? No one called or implied you are a liar; however, you are spreading misinformation, which you obviously believed to be true until you were corrected.

I don't doubt you found the information somewhere so why not post the link?

 

[Folsom]

If you're not understanding by now, there's no point in continuing this off-topic conversation. And I'm not scouring through Google again to post bad information.

 

[microstrip]

You need more current than that, at least 50a.

http://www.lammindustries.com/PRODUCTS/m12spec.html

The specification 50a (assuming 50 ampere peak) is meaningless taken out of the context of a specif amplifier. What matters is how the current is handled by the amplifier. Sometimes we have some kind of subjective correlation because high peak current usually involves high damping and a power supply with lots of capacitance, but the world of subjective correlations is full of surprises.

 

[DaveC]

The specification 50a (assuming 50 ampere peak) is meaningless taken out of the context of a specif amplifier. What matters is how the current is handled by the amplifier. Sometimes we have some kind of subjective correlation because high peak current usually involves high damping and a power supply with lots of capacitance, but the world of subjective correlations is full of surprises.

Yeah, this kind of amperage rating seems to have nothing to do with the actual current delivery from the amp, but is based on the power supply's ability to deliver instantaneous current so this number goes up with power supply capacitance even when the amp's power ratings don't change.

I have a 150W stereo amp that is rated 45A in basic form and >60A upgraded with 180,000 uF PS capacitance and double the power transformer VA rating. It's still a 150W amp either way, but it's possible the peak rating might be higher with the upgraded version.

 

[morricab]

Yeah, this kind of amperage rating seems to have nothing to do with the actual current delivery from the amp, but is based on the power supply's ability to deliver instantaneous current so this number goes up with power supply capacitance even when the amp's power ratings don't change.

I have a 150W stereo amp that is rated 45A in basic form and >60A upgraded with 180,000 uF PS capacitance and double the power transformer VA rating. It's still a 150W amp either way, but it's possible the peak rating might be higher with the upgraded version.

As always, the power delivery of an amp depends on the load it is strapped to. These quoted current deliveries have nothing to do with an 8 ohm or even 4 ohm load. They are talking basically about a dead short and even then for some mS or the amp would blow up. 150 Watts into 8ohms is only 4.3 amps. 300 watts into 4 ohms is 8.7 amps, 600 watts into 2 ohms is 17.3 amps, 1200 watts into 1 ohm is 34.7 amps.

Now, I know you know this but just in case there is confusion out there. 100 watts deliverd from a SS amp or a tube amp will deliver the same 3.5 amps into an 8 ohm load. If the amp clips at that level then it will not deliver clean current beyond 3.5 amps, unless it has a good dynamic headroom. The best I have seen was around 3db. So, an amp that can for short bursts put out 200 watts into 8 ohms will have a current headroom of 1.5 amps compared to the amp with no dynamic headroom. But there will be nothing like a 30 or 40 amp delivery.