Ultrasonic Cavitation & Cleaning Explained

[tony22]

Well, this is a bit of a disaster. With

Holding tank -> pump -> filter -> UCM

Im getting great suction out of the holding tank, nice push into the filter. I see some liquid coming out of the filter housing, but once the filter housing filled up, it started leaking like a sieve where the blue canister screws into the upper part. I pretty sure I tightened it as far as I could go. Help needed.

 

[tony22]

Should I be using pipe dope around the canister threads?

 

[Neil.Antin]

Holding tank -> pump -> filter -> UCM

Tony:
You always put the pump so that it discharges to the filter which is what the book shows in all Figures. Pumps have limited suction but lots of discharge pressure. So, your arrangement is now correct.

Edit: If you look at the pump specs - 21-Series Diaphragm Water Pumps - SeaFresh Marine - An Authorized SEAFLO Dealer, note that the Priming Capabilities = 4 feet (1.2 m) suction lift (which is not much) while the maximum (discharge) press is 35 psi.

Should I be using pipe dope around the canister threads?

Tony:
Wrap the fittings to the cannister with Teflon Plumbers Tape - Amazon.com : teflon tape plumbing. Any hardware store will have Teflon Plumbing Tape. When you wrap the fittings, looking at the end of the fitting, wrap clockwise, so that when you thread-in the fitting, the tape does not try to unravel.

Edit:

 

[Neil.Antin]

it started leaking like a sieve where the blue canister screws into the upper part.

Tony:
The cannister head has an O-ring, make sure that is installed, and properly seated and you need to buy the cannister head wrench to tighten it - part number Pentek™ SW-2 https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-Pent...1701200523&sprefix=pentek+sw-2,aps,117&sr=8-5. This part is shown in the book, Table XXIV UCM Pump-Filter System Parts List.

 

[tony22]

Tony:
You always put the pump so that it discharges to the filter which is what the book shows in all Figures. Pumps have limited suction but lots of discharge pressure. So, your arrangement is now correct.


Tony:
Wrap the fittings to the cannister with Teflon Plumbers Tape - Amazon.com : teflon tape plumbing. Any hardware store will have Teflon Plumbing Tape. When you wrap the fittings, looking at the end of the fitting, wrap clockwise, so that when you thread-in the fitting, the tape does not try to unravel.

I tried the Teflon tape. The canister is still leaking, although not as badly as when I was not using the Teflon tape. I really don’t know how hard to tighten the canister when I screw it back in. I would say it is more than hand tight. I’ve done plenty of plumbing work in the past, so I’ve got some experience with how to get fittings put together so they stay dry. Either metal or plastic.

 

[tony22]

Tony:
The cannister head has an O-ring, make sure that is installed, and properly seated and you need to buy the cannister head wrench to tighten it - part number Pentek™ SW-2 https://www.amazon.com/Pentair-Pentek-SW-2-Standard-Housings/dp/B0CF6WH4PS/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3SAP87T4SISV7&keywords=Pentek™+SW-2&qid=1701200523&sprefix=pentek+sw-2,aps,117&sr=8-5. This part is shown in the book, Table XXIV UCM Pump-Filter System Parts List.

I did order it, but I haven’t gotten it yet. Once I have it, after I hand tighten the canister how much further do I tighten it with the wrench? Quarter turn, half turn?

 

[tony22]

And oh, my water right now is showing a TDS of 2.1 using the COM–100. Once I push it through the 0.2 µm filter that I’m using, do you have any thought as to what sort of number I should be seeing?

 

[Neil.Antin]

I did order it, but I haven’t gotten it yet. Once I have it, after I hand tighten the canister how much further do I tighten it with the wrench? Quarter turn, half turn?

Tony:

Have you checked that the O-ring is installed and not cut or crimped? Also, did you pre-wet the O-ring with some DIW, that will often allow the O-ring to seat better. If so, with the wrench, you should snug up/tighten 1/4 to 1/2 turn. You are not torquing it, and the wrench is only plastic.

nd oh, my water right now is showing a TDS of 2.1 using the COM–100. Once I push it through the 0.2 µm filter that I’m using, do you have any thought as to what sort of number I should be seeing?

As the book says; Note: After assembly of a new pump/filter system, operate at 30°C/86°F to 40°C/104°F for 1-2 hours (w/o records or ultrasonics) to clean the new system. If the fluid becomes cloudy or TDS is out of specification (>10 ppm), refresh the fluid and repeat until the fluid remains clear and TDS is <5 ppm. The system is now ready for record cleaning.

Otherwise, once the system is 'clean', the 0.2-micron filter is a sediment filter only, and it is designed to have no effect on TDS.

 

[tony22]

The O-ring is fine.

Hmm, I thought the filter would reduce the total dissolved solids number. If it doesn’t do that, do we just toss it after the number gets up there too high?

 

[Neil.Antin]

If it doesn’t do that, do we just toss it after the number gets up there too high?

No. The filter takes out particles. You replace the filter when the pump discharge pressure gauge (prior to the filter) reads about 20 psi. The filter should last many months if not as much as a year.

When the TDS reads high, you refresh the bath.

 

[tony22]

When the TDS reads high, you refresh the bath.

Color me a little in need of further enlightenment. If a .2 micron filter is theoretically fine enough for some bacteria, then it sounds like the dissolved solids content that keeps the TDS number where it is is all smaller than that? I’d have thought the number would go down a little bit.

 

[Neil.Antin]

then it sounds like the dissolved solids content that keeps the TDS number where it is is all smaller than that? I’d have thought the number would go down a little bit.

Not even a little bit. Bacteria is not dissolved in the water, it is suspended. The key word is dissolved, and the term 'solids" only refers to the fact that when the water evaporates, the dissolved solid which is not volatile will stay behind as a solid. Example, basic tap-water is high in TDS, and the 0.2-micron filter will not remove any of the TDS. To remove TDS, you can use reserves osmoses (RO) filtration; but RO is not a simple sediement filter

Otherwise, the COM-10 measures conductivity and then converts that reading to TDS-ppm. But, only dissolved ionic salts cause a change in conductivity/TDS. So, Tergitol which is a non-ionic surfactant has little or no effect on conductivity/TDS. Also, Tergitol dissolved in water will pass through the 0.2-micron filter. Chapter 7 of the book goes into more detail regarding TDS.

 

[tima]

Interesting exchange here.

The O-ring is fine.

Fwiw, I do not use plumber's tape on the filter cap threads, just the o-ring and I experience no leakage.

The filter should last many months if not as much as a year.

I use the Pentek 150574 cannister with a Pentek 143549 gauge and FlowMax/Watts FPP-0.2-975-DOE 2.5” x 9.75” DOE End Cap 0.2 micron absolute filter. After ~ 1.5 years the gauge still shows ealy in the green. That is ~ 450 records cleaned.

My topology is what Neil names a Recirculating Filter System.

Tony - out of curiousity, why did you adopt the Batch Processing topology with two pumps?

 

[tony22]

Thanks as always, @Neil.Antin. I’ve read your tech doc more than once, but sometimes getting the handheld explanation from the author helps this poor guy who didn’t do so well in organic chemistry in college.

Interesting exchange here.



Fwiw, I do not use plumber's tape on the filter cap threads, just the o-ring and I experience no leakage.



I use the Pentek 150574 cannister with a Pentek 143549 gauge and FlowMax/Watts FPP-0.2-975-DOE 2.5” x 9.75” DOE End Cap 0.2 micron absolute filter. After ~ 1.5 years the gauge still shows ealy in the green. That is ~ 450 records cleaned.

My topology is what Neil names a Recirculating Filter System.

Tony - out of curiousity, why did you adopt the Batch Processing topology with two pumps?

Tim, I have the exact same canister, gauge, and filter you’re using. But I do not yet have the canister wrench. My first go around was hand tight and the fluid came pouring out from around the rim of blue container like a waterfall. The filter was properly seated and the O ring was fine. I tried Teflon tape but was hesitant, as a lot of sites do not recommend the use of tape with tapered thread plastic fittings. So that was just a quick test. I removed the tape and tried hand tightening further, but that only helped a little. I actually have two of the 150574s so I tried the second one. Same result. The only way I could get it to stop was to use Blue Monster pipe thread sealant on the 150574 threads.

I actually cobbled together a bit of a Frankenstein system. I have the UCM feeding into a Y ball valve. I first drain it into the holding tank that itself has its own two direction system (I got this a while ago and never used it). So the UCM drains into this, then I reverse it and it pushes through a 5 micron filter that’s built into that holding tank (it has its own motor) back into the UCM. Then I drain the UCM again, back into that holding tank, but once that’s done I set the Y ball valve to accept the feed from the 0.2 micron path. I have the motor (that 24V Seaflo), pulling out of the same holding tank and pushing it through the Pentek. It works, but I’ll admit it’s less than elegant. I just had a few things lying around that I figured I could use, so the resulting design isn’t quite exactly like what’s in Neil’s paper.

 

[tony22]

@tima, could you go over your timings again for dual frequency cleaning? I’m expecting a dual frequency UCM to arrive tomorrow so I’d like to be ready. It’s actually claimed to be a three frequency cleaner - 40, 80, 120 KHz, but it seems for record cleaning the 120 KHz is not useful or recommended. So I’d be doing a 40/80 cleaning.

 

[tima]

@tima, could you go over your timings again for dual frequency cleaning? I’m expecting a dual frequency UCM to arrive tomorrow so I’d like to be ready. It’s actually claimed to be a three frequency cleaner - 40, 80, 120 KHz, but it seems for record cleaning the 120 KHz is not useful or recommended. So I’d be doing a 40/80 cleaning.

Sure.
10 minute degas both Wash and Rinse tanks to start. (no records)
10 minutes in P120H Wash tank at Elmasonic dual frequency mode which alternates between 37 and 80kHz.
10 minutes in Wash tank at 80kHz.
10 minutes in S120 Rinse tank at 37kHz.
10 - 40 minutes drying.

 

[Neil.Antin]

but it seems for record cleaning the 120 KHz is not useful or recommended.

Tony:

There is nothing wrong with the using 120kHz to clean records; the Degritter uses 120kHz; but the Degritter is a powerful machine. The issue is that there is not much cleaning benefit between 80 kHz and 120 kHz awad-reprint II (crest-ultrasonics.com), and you need more power for cavitation at 120 kHz than at 80 kHz. You unless you have a powerful machine using 120kHz is not going to be a benefit over 80kHz, and as I wrote previously, the 40-80-120 kHz UT you bought is not that powerful. The one benefit of 120-kHz is that it is quieter. However, you should experiment with using 80 & 120-kHz - nothing ventured nothing gained.

FYI - when setting the time, time it so that you get an equal number of revolutions so that you get equal cleaning; example; 0.5 rpm and 10-min = 5-revolutions, but 0.75-rpm and 10-min = 7.5-revolutions; so, for 7-revolutions you would set for (7-rev/0.75-rpm) = 9-min-20-sec (close enough).

Good Luck,
Neil

 

[tony22]

Thanks as always, @Neil.Antin

 

[tony22]

Fwiw, I do not use plumber's tape on the filter cap threads, just the o-ring and I experience no leakage.

Tim, the magic wrench did the trick. Actually, I read the reviews noting this is prone the breakage, so I taped two of them together. The canister gave an extra little “snick” of a turn with the wrench and now all is good. No leaks.

This new machine seems to work well. I have to fashion some spacers for the iSonic anchors, but that shouldn’t be too difficult. I can do 6 records with the proper spacing between them, and a test batch came out very nicely.

 

[tima]

Tim, the magic wrench did the trick. Actually, I read the reviews noting this is prone the breakage, so I taped two of them together. The canister gave an extra little “snick” of a turn with the wrench and now all is good. No leaks.

This new machine seems to work well. I have to fashion some spacers for the iSonic anchors, but that shouldn’t be too difficult. I can do 6 records with the proper spacing between them, and a test batch came out very nicely.

That's great. I also use two wrenches.