Zero Distortion: Tango Time

As long as we are harassing Tang for every minute detail ;) ; did the SAEC 407/23 you bought bring anything to the table (pun intended) when compared to your flock of 3012R arms?

It is much superior to the 3012r on the Lyra atlas. Could be on others I don't know. Mik rates the new SAEC ones quite high
 
  • Like
Reactions: 108CY
Hi Marty,

It takes time and a lot of switching of gears to understand the nature of each tt. I tried to use all same gears but tt as much as possible when evaluating. And to make sure I don't use my hearing memory too much, I try my best to do a/b at a flick of fingers. I do own two Opus1, two Master Sig. (although not the same output spec.), two original SAT arms, 3 Axiom arms, 4 SME 3012Rs, two EMT JPA66 MkII phonos. And I have tried same arm cart combo in direct a/b manner across three tts. Two tts at a time though otherwise I have to buy more arm and cart of the same type. The EMT 927 is the one I can't use SAT with because it has a fixed unique arm placement. When compare the 927 I had to do it with the Axiom extra long arm instead. I have two Axiom arms made specifically for the 927 and I have one Axiom for mounting AF1P and AS2000. Although I could not do tt comparison with the rest of gears involved being 100% the same in every scenario, but I could get pretty close to that.

To be honest Marty, a big part of reason I bought these tts and gears is because I want to know by myself why these tts were raved so much on social media and if the people who got a loan to review them really knew what they were talking about. I live with them. Now I am over that. I know which fits my preferences most. So my time is mostly on finding new music and enjoying it. That's why you see me more recommending records.

Tang
Very clearly stated and very understandable logic. Thanks for taking the time to convey your thoughts.
Marty
 
Dear Tang,

Merry Christmas!

Do you notice any sonic differences between your two Opus 1s?

Thank you.
 
Great stuff tango. Sounds like you’ve made up your mind. Keep your lovely two new children and sell the old children, err audio gear and pass the love to a new audiophile.

Seriously, have you thought about simplifying your analog laboratory? Your kids will need a place to play in your office.

I don't limit myself to analog. Digital is a gateway to unlimited music and it is the inevitable. Just a matter of time that I will jump back into it. Right now I keep reading feedbacks from digital threads and waiting for Bonzo to confirm which equipments for me. No downsizing my vinyl fronts. I still want to explore carts. Ddk said he would send me interesting mm for me to try. On tape front I don't think it is worth exploring further.

My boy actually likes pressing speed button and lowering arm lever. His eyes always turned wide every time the needle landed on the groove making sound.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
  • Like
Reactions: christoph
Dear Tang,

Merry Christmas!

Do you notice any sonic differences between your two Opus 1s?

Thank you.
Merry Christmas to you too my dear moderator. :)

Of course there is always a slight difference in sound from cart to cart even of the same type. Not just cart either. Ask Mik, he could even detect two SAT arms of the same model sounded slightly different. But it is negligible. I already have one of my Opus1 reconditioned. So in a sense I have listened to three different Opus1. They all sounded like Opus1. My most trusted cart.
 
Lol
 
@Folsom. Here is another white elephant on piano. Lazar Berman's buffet of Rachmaninoff, Scriabine, Prokofiev, Beethoven, Khatchaturian, Chopin, Schubert and De Falla. https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/7256437?ev=rbLazar Berman is another pianist I like, but it is difficult to find a good pressing of his works. I had four mis-hits on him earlier. What a bargain on this record.

088F4611-9EA1-4A2B-BABC-D50C6B2733DB.jpeg
805FC6A2-DFBC-406D-BB2B-FAB974FF7FCF.jpeg
 
oh my

please a few different interpretations that make sense


and the original


i don’t want to say this sounds like a 1920s radio with ‘heavy rain’ ... maybe a monsoon or typhoon ?
, but will leave others to judge

oh my ...........
 
Ps my Father now long gone loved Berman so it’s not a performer prejudice but a sonic one
 
It means rare find from a jungle in my culture. What does it mean in the West? :confused: I hope nothing obscene.

No one is going to come after you here for saying anything obscene tang
 
It means rare find from a jungle in my culture. What does it mean in the West? :confused: I hope nothing obscene.
It all depends on what you intend to do with the elephant ;)
 
Tsk Tusk
 
oh my

please a few different interpretations that make sense


and the original


i don’t want to say this sounds like a 1920s radio with ‘heavy rain’ ... maybe a monsoon or typhoon ?
, but will leave others to judge

oh my ...........

Yuja Wang is one of only a few "new' pianists who have my attention.

The other one I simply adore is Niu Niu. A child prodigy from China, he was the youngest pianist ever signed to a major classical label (EMI). He has several previous albums but his most recent is his first album for Decca Classics (recorded in Berlin) which was released in June 2018, the same year he graduated New York’s Juilliard School (with full scholarship). For me, it was the finest classical album of the year. The kid has it all. His incredible technique is a given but it's his artistic maturity that is beyond his years which is truly impressive. I was slack-jawed when first I heard him play the Liszt Sonata in B minor so I then went on Roon and played it by 10 of the "greatest of all time" pianists to gain further insight into his capabilities. Each was of course extraordinary and unique, but Niu Niu found a way to make some passages sing in his own special way that had me shaking my head with joy from what I heard. I can picture Liszt is in heaven declaring "this is what I'm talkin' about"! By the way, it's a superb recording and one that is done full justice by ye old Lampizator GG2, which seems to have been made for the piano alone if nothing else (fortunately, there's plenty of "else" out there). The entire album is a sheer delight and beautiful from start to finish. Sorry, but there is no LP that I know of, however with a Lampi, you won't care. The Decca folks know what they're doing.

niu niu.jpg
 
Last edited:
Continued..

AS2000.
- The American Sound is not a tt that would wow you from the start. It is a tt with no "bling" in sound. No explosive dynamic. The sound stage is narrower, less deep and less layer than the AF1P. Instruments also not neatly laid out like the Techdas. It sure sounds smaller with less rhythmic punch than the EMT 927. And music just does not pop out from muted dark background like the Kronos. To be honest on the first day I did not feel anything very special about it except for hearing music more transparent and open than from the other tts.

It is not a wow tt what good is it then? The more I listen the more AS2000 impresses me with its "naked transparency." It is just so darn transparent so clear so open. This make you hear more from a vinyl and make you able to hear better atmosphere of the recording venue, the difference between pressings of the same music and the new gear or tweaks you add into the system. The nuances coming out of AS is phenomenal..better than AF1P and 927. I think since it does not try to make back ground so quiet by erasing or blackening, or accentuate certain tone, the tiny micro info is still left available to hear. The sound is naked and you will keep hearing things the more you listen to it. It just does not expose things in obvious way. The beauty of its sound is in the naked-ness without putting makeup cosmetic on. More of a beautiful woman in front page of National Geographic rather than Vogue.

Next impressive thing is its ability to expose how a singer control his/her voice, or how a violinist control a stroke of his/her bow. You can hear when there is a tiny shift in control. This helps boost the sense of realism and make you impress how musician or singer perform more than the sound. I value this so highly because I like to compare the same piece of music by different musicians and I choose which one I like more by the way he/she plays. I don't know how much speed consistency and accuracy contribute to this.

Third is the size and scale of images. Big or large is not my cup of tea. To me for things to sound real the size and proportion of sound should give a good approximation to you to visualize the actual event. I listen to a lot of old records. Old recordings tend to not put microphone very close to the sound source like today. So they somewhat sound like you stand away in front and use your hand phone recording a band playing Live. The sound size of AS playing classical old records gives me the sense of realism in term of size closest to my analogy. Ddk might think otherwise but I find 927 while gets less in the way of music, the size of its sound is less realistic in comparison to the AS.

Now this is very important. The AS2000 makes me realize I don't need a sheer grunt, hefty out right constant dynamic to make listening interesting and feel more natural presentation of the musical performance. The AS2000 instead shows me that the contrast in dynamic, tone and timbre when music is performing by different instruments is actually the key to natural sound. Different contrasts at micro and macro level make sound reproduction less homogeneous. The AS 2000 especially with the 3012R allow me to hear these contrasts more than other tts I own.

I cannot end with out saying this. I think the tuning of a cart is so crucial for AS2000 to show how good it is. (Also doing the things that PeterA is doing now.) As I said at beginning the AS has no bling to add to sound. It will pretty much play vinyls as good as the vinyl is...no helping. So you have to have your arm cart set the best you can to extract what is in the groove. I think this is why ddk practically made me learn how to set up a cart. A difference of two cards thick can mean a worm hole that happens infront of you to hear Heifetz playing with the sound of his violin pouring out of that worm hole and the one that like a very clear glass window with less connection to the sound of his violin.

99% of my time is spent listening to music from AS2000 now. The more you listen to music from AS the more you make "realization" of sound, you also realize you don't miss anything, if anything is missing it is probably something down the line in your system, and at the same time be amazed at how much music is in those vinyls. The vinyls themself become a determinant how good the sound will come out of your system.

@ddk. I am sorry my friend the way I wrote about your tt may sound like a lame duck.

Sincerely,
Tang

Dear Tang,

Very interesting opinions about the different turntables. However considering you own a Studer A820 it would be even more interesting if you would compare them briefly with reel to reel mastertapes.

BTW, can I ask what is the thickness of your cards?
 
Last edited:
Yuja Wang is one of only a few "new' pianists who have my attention.

The other one I simply adore is Niu Niu. A child prodigy from China, he was the youngest pianist ever signed to a major classical label (EMI). He has several previous albums but his most recent is his first album for Decca Classics (recorded in Berlin) which was released in June 2018, the same year he graduated New York’s Juilliard School (with full scholarship). For me, it was the finest classical album of the year. The kid has it all. His incredible technique is a given but it's his artistic maturity that is beyond his years which is truly impressive. I was slack-jawed when first I heard him play the Liszt Sonata in B minor so I then went on Roon and played it by 10 of the "greatest of all time" pianists to gain further insight into his capabilities. Each was of course extraordinary and unique, but Niu Niu found a way to make some passages sing in his own special way that had me shaking my head with joy from what I heard. I can picture Liszt is in heaven declaring "this is what I'm talkin' about"! By the way, it's a superb recording and one that is done full justice by ye old Lampizator GG2, which seems to have been made for the piano alone if nothing else (fortunately, there's plenty of "else" out there). The entire album is a sheer delight and beautiful from start to finish. Sorry, but there is no LP that I know of, however with a Lampi, you won't care. The Decca folks know what they're doing.

View attachment 60239
Your comment made my itch level hitting redline, Marty. There is no way to enjoy new music without digital. I was delighted to see Yuja's Revel Left Hand concerto on vinyl. Not even finished one band I threw it into my junk bin. Listening to her on youtube with ear phone is much much more enjoyable. With this particular NIU NIU album you listened, was it a cd or a digital download of some sort? Are you enjoying your Lampi with a cd transport or a super server people praised so much of in the other thread.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu