How much is too much?

[LL21]

Hi DAveyF

When i mean 'spending spurt'...i am referring to the fact that we are seeing 150K amplifiers, 35K preamps being sold...largely in Asia, Eastern Europe. Much of the Boulder phono mania was driven out of Asia...in fact, nearly all of it. This spending spurt is pushing up pricing...but i am forecasting that, like all things, this is only cyclical. Eventually, people will realize that while {a few} of these products are truly testing the boundaries of the high-end...many of these products are just low-volume, snob-appeal, over-priced rip-offs. And when they do..they will stop the spending spurt. Couple that with the fact that the rest of us are NOT spending hardly at all....and this will bring Audio back to earth...and value.

i do think, btw, that super-hi end priced products are here to stay [remember the Ongaku?...and the Krell Master Reference Amps...$150K back in '99...only 50 ever made but all sold]...i am just saying i think the mandate for value will return to the market, due to sheer market forces...As Abraham Lincoln said, "you cant fool all the people all of the time..."

 

[mep]

As Abraham Lincoln said, "you cant fool all the people all of the time..."

But as PT Barnum said, there is a sucker born every minute.

 

[LL21]

But as PT Barnum said, there is a sucker born every minute.

Yup!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Yup!

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1316308361&auc&3&4&

 

[FrantzM]

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1316308361&auc&3&4&

Not far from Shakti Stones, Harmonik Dots or Magic Pebbles IME

 

[mep]

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?accstwek&1316308361&auc&3&4&

That is freaking hilarious.

 

[Gregadd]

Actually P.T. Barnum did not say that.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute And that proves what Abe Lincoln said.

 

[mep]

Actually P.T. Barnum did not say that.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_a_sucker_born_every_minute And that proves what Abe Lincoln said.

Well, if wikipedia said it's not true, it must be so.

 

[Gregadd]

Well, if wikipedia said it's not true, it must be so.

Touche' They have been known to be correct on occasion. http://www.historybuff.com/library/refbarnum.html

He may not have said it but he certainly praticed it.

 

[Gregadd]

The question remains how some require >$100k to make leading edge products while others can make for example the Sanders Magtech amp and the Maggie 3.7(probably a good match ) with a combined price of less than $10k. Both of which received awards with no price qualifications.
IMO many of these super products are truly outstanding. As they should be. IMO many are underachievers. Some are fragile and stink unless matched with singular components.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I see two totally different things here. The coconut/magic pebles/etc? That's the ghost of PT Barnum? The pathway to the $150k cable we're on that runs through Moscow and Hong Kong? That's people with, quite literally, more money than they know what to do with spending that which means almost nothing to them to acquire that which they perceive to be "the best." That a few of them may accidentally know what good is doesn't change the dynamic. They need to find a few good charities. Or pay their workers a living wage.

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

At the risk of agreeing with you TIM It's one thing to pander to the fat cats. OTOH reviewers ought to know better. They get more mega buck equipment to park in their listening room. Money is the ultimate COI.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Like a million monkeys with typewriters eventually coming up with Shakespeare, you and I were bound to agree on something at some point, Greg.

Actually, I think we agree on a lot of music, and on the beautiful sound Martin Logan's can make.

Tim

 

[JackD201]

At the risk of agreeing with you TIM It's one thing to pander to the fat cats. OTOH reviewers ought to know better. They get more mega buck equipment to park in their listening room. Money is the ultimate COI.

We have to be honest with ourselves. Any publication has gotta catch attention with the cover or opening webpage. It doesn't mean that what's inside isn't balanced coverage. The question is how many of us would really pick up a mag that has a commoditized item like a receiver on the cover? That the pursuit of manufacturers to stand out in a crowded market has led to ghastly prices is but an unfortunate consequence. I've always maintained though that for those who are performance rather than prestige oriented, it shouldn't be an issue at all. If you're happy with what you've got what should you care if somebody else says it stinks. If that is the case then somebody saying something else is marginally better should be even more irrelevant. Now for those that just slap together systems based on what's hot, that's really their problem. They'll either burn out or figure out what is really best suited for their unique requirements. It's too much when it's not worth it.

 

[Gregadd]

Well Jack I offer Car and Driver magazine as an example. They love a Farrari like the rest of us. Their top cars for 2011 has two Hondas,two Mazdas and and a Volkswagen. Theyhave raised their maximum price.

I am not sure but I think all review samples are sent to the magazine. Some cars are subject to long term evaluations . But I think they are available to everyone. I don't think they are entitled to industry accommodation prices.

In case the power link doesn't work. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_cars-10best_cars

I do love the Logans but I am of course a purist and less tolerant of the newer models. Once you "hook 'em" you can cook 'em any way you like.

 

[Orb]

Well Jack I offer Car and Driver magazine as an example. They love a Farrari like the rest of us. Their top cars for 2011 has two Hondas,two Mazdas and and a Volkswagen. Theyhave raised their maximum price.

I am not sure but I think all review samples are sent to the magazine. Some cars are subject to long term evaluations . But I think they are available to everyone. I don't think they are entitled to industry accommodation prices.

In case the power link doesn't work. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_cars-10best_cars

I do love the Logans but I am of course a purist and less tolerant of the newer models. Once you "hook 'em" you can cook 'em any way you like.

Although the list is capped at $80k, still nice amount but low for the good models of say ferrari,etc.
Interesting 1st paragraph where they feel diminishing returns kick in at $80k:

This year, for the 28th running of our annual 10Best competition, the rules were simple. First, we raised the price cap from $71,000 to $80,000 (roughly three times the average transaction price of a new car) in the belief that 80 grand is the current point of automotive excellence’s diminishing returns.

Cheers
Orb

 

[Whatmore]

Again, there is this expectation that in the car industry at least there are still returns to be had even if they are diminishing. I suspect in some cases in the audio world, the returns simply aren't there. In other words some highly- priced gear is a rip-off

 

[microstrip]

Well Jack I offer Car and Driver magazine as an example. They love a Farrari like the rest of us. Their top cars for 2011 has two Hondas,two Mazdas and and a Volkswagen. Theyhave raised their maximum price.

I am not sure but I think all review samples are sent to the magazine. Some cars are subject to long term evaluations . But I think they are available to everyone. I don't think they are entitled to industry accommodation prices.

In case the power link doesn't work. http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/2010_10best_cars-10best_cars

I do love the Logans but I am of course a purist and less tolerant of the newer models. Once you "hook 'em" you can cook 'em any way you like.

On this one I agree with Jack . Car and driver is not the only existing car magazine in my view. I have just opened the Zinio electronic magazine site and pressed "automotive" . This is what I got. If this is not the high-end of cars I would be surprised ...

 

[Gregadd]

I think you guys missed the point. Just to continue argument Consumer Reports seems to do okay.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Consumer_Reports_cover.jpg

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

The question is how many of us would really pick up a mag that has a commoditized item like a receiver on the cover?

How many of us? Not many. But give me a mag with an AV receiver on the cover, a magazine with a reputation for thorough, objective (and subjective) analysis; the kind of reviews that separate mediocrity from quality and reveals the giant-slayers in the market, and a LOT of people would buy it. Two-channel audiophiles? No. But if I had to build a business on 2-channel audiophiles I'd....launch a web site?

Tim