Reality is Cruel : Cybershaft new Ultimate OCXO 10M Clocks Shootout OP20 vs OP17

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
1,186
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Greer South Carolina (USA)
UPOCXO-OP20A ??612,500 (10% tax included)
UPOCXO-OP21A ??743,700 (10% tax included)


Overseas communication page in English : http://www.cybershaft.jp/overseas01.html

Yes, that's the page.....best bet to convert currency to your local in UK, EMEA, US, whatever is to download
the Oanda FX currency converter app for your phone.

As of today, the OP21A's 743,700 JPY price tag equals $6796 USD so EUR is about 90% of that.
 

vhs

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2019
38
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Mutec Ref 10 SE-120, Cybershaft OP20 Limited2, Cybershaft OP21A are all powered up. To be fair, power is from the same extension strip and all are using the same black stock cable.

Proper comparison will be made on Saturday when all clocks have two day to stabilize. I invite a few audiophiles to pop over and grade the performance of them. Stay tuned. By the way, the digital system is full stack of dCS Viviadi .
View attachment 60565
Thanks for your effort !
 

AndrewChen

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2018
43
24
113
The comparison was done carefully and systematically today with three very experienced audiophiles and myself. A cheap GPS disciplined clock (on the far right of the photo) was added as a reference.

...

I can't speak for other digital systems, but if you use full stack of dCS Vivaldi system, the price of OP21A is around 10% of Vivaldi system and it improves the sound by 50%. You can do the maths. In fact, even OP20 and Mutec SE-120 enhance the sound significantly, the one who doesn't use a proper 10M reference clock on his Vivaldi system is not revealing the full potential of his gear..


Very interesting results, thanks for that.

Question; Were the listening tests done with Dither on the Vivaldi Clock switched On or Off?
 

TLi

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2016
441
1,121
253
Thanks
so there are 2 improvements
1 with Cyber op21 A clocking - the Vivaldi
2. with Cyber op21 A clocking Sotm switch.

do you have access to the second Sotm ?
it would be great to see if having 2 switches bith clocked with ref 10 mhz signal will
be better that single switch.
CKKeung referred it is very significant difference when adding second sotm

I may try to use two SToM switches in the future, but at the moment I am very satisfied with the sound. The CAS system is getting more and more complicated. With so many components, I am running out of rack space.
 

TLi

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2016
441
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TLi, Thank you for your time, effort for organising and sharing such a controlled shootout.

Indeed, every clock implementation sound different.

Even, the GPSD clock likewise, where i still champion lab quality Rubidium clocks to be a very very beneficial addition and upon adding good power supplies and cabling actually sound fantastic at each relative price point and it is a no brainer addition.

I also feel you get what you pay for incrementally whether a better clock, cables and isolation is added.

The cost really add up, so for readers, eo not shy away from cheaper offerings. I would say most external clocks for instrumental, aerospace, miltary are ALL way better than even any sub 100 VCXO or TCXO No matter if they show a rather nice phase noise, like a 50 dollar crystek cchd 957 or ndks, whatever, still sound very lacking compared to external clocking.

Maybe size matters most for us clock afficianados.

I still like the Mutec, even the standard model which has a nice presentation over a very wide range of music, rock pop, electronic.

My experience with Cybershafts op17, i prefer for Audiophile , jazz type music.

And for Rubidium clocks, i found best for orchestra, instrumental music.

Interestingly, certain Rubidium clocks modules, like the Quartzlick actually also contain an OCXO inside, where the rubidium disciplines this OCXO and also sounds great.

Thanks again, maybe even though stock cords were used, you could swap them around to eliminate all parameters which could possibly influence the results.

It may be best to set total budget for the clock, pc and clock cables. They will all scale up proportionally w.r.t sound improvement i feel, up to quite an astronomical figure possibly depending on setup, especially once clocking switches cime into the picture and can be a a big rabbit hole once top notch ancillaries are taken into the consideration.

Also, of interest, which clock cable was used?

The clock cable is Nordost Valhalla 2 BNC digital cable.

You are right that every clock sounds different. Clocks are very sensitive to environment, power supply and cabling, so vibration control is important. Different footer gives different sound.

I separate the effect of other factors with the quality of the clock itself. It is like a piece of grilled steak. The quality of meat, seasoning and cooking contribute to the final taste. There is no substitute to a good clock. Seasoning changes the taste but eventually it takes a good clock as a basis for good sound.

After tested and used a number of clocks, the essence can be identified. Good clock brings everything together, like a photo with correct focus. It is more real, more live. OP21A is the best clock I come across so far.
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
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I may try to use two SToM switches in the future, but at the moment I am very satisfied with the sound. The CAS system is getting more and more complicated. With so many components, I am running out of rack space.

So you tested the SQ with only one sotm switch clocked with OP21A ?
When do you plan to test 2 ? Both clocked with OP21A.
 

TLi

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2016
441
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So you tested the SQ with only one sotm switch clocked with OP21A ?
When do you plan to test 2 ? Both clocked with OP21A.

Except for GPSD clock which has only one output, the other three tested have multiple outputs. For GPSD, it was connected to switch.

Every time when we swap the clock, it was connected to both SOtM switch and Vivaldi clock. The difference between clocks were amplified because of this double enhancement.

At the moment, there is no plan to test two SOtM switches, but I may do it in the future,
 

XCop5089

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
124
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Winchester, UK
Please could you detail the rest of the system listened to (preamp, if any, power amp(s) and speakers)?
 

XCop5089

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
124
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260
Winchester, UK
Thank you for your efforts. Very interesting!
 

stevebythebay

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2012
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Thanks for your effort !
Is the Mutec Ref 10 SE-120 available yet? What’s the cost? I’m over in the U.S.
I’ve thought to use it, or the OP21A, with my Vivaldi clock and Uptone EtherREGEN switch.
 

XCop5089

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2015
124
96
260
Winchester, UK
Mutec have not yet managed to source enough clocks for the Ref10 that meet the SE-120 specification.

They hope to be able to make an official product announcement at the end of the first quarter, once production by their supplier has stabilised.

UK cost is envisaged to be in the region of £4250 inclusive of VAT. I have no idea of the US pricing.
 

stevebythebay

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2012
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Looks as though the OP21A is another $1200 above the anticipated SE-120. For me, it may come down to product support. I gather that Mutec has numerous distributers, while Cybershaft does not. Am I incorrect about that?

Wonder if anyone, outside of the audiophile community, has these for demo. I’ve yet to find any high end dealers of home audio who’ve even considered testing system-wide master clocks, let alone recommending them. But I’m new to this concept.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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The Dither is on.

I can't understand the reason behind this choice - why using an ultra low phase noise 10 MHz clock and then introducing phase noise in the distribution clock?
 

stevebythebay

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Oct 21, 2012
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I can't understand the reason behind this choice - why using an ultra low phase noise 10 MHz clock and then introducing phase noise in the distribution clock?
According to the manual for the clock (see attached).

I can only surmise that the design of the Vivaldi Clock, in the context of the Vivaldi stack, does not follow typical clocking. It's a self contained environment.
 

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CKKeung

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Jun 17, 2011
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Looks as though the OP21A is another $1200 above the anticipated SE-120. For me, it may come down to product support. I gather that Mutec has numerous distributers, while Cybershaft does not. Am I incorrect about that?

Wonder if anyone, outside of the audiophile community, has these for demo. I’ve yet to find any high end dealers of home audio who’ve even considered testing system-wide master clocks, let alone recommending them. But I’m new to this concept.
Hello Steve,
I guess only the Hong Kong audiophiles are so crazy!
:D

BTW I personally strongly recommend the Cybershaft new OP21A.
It worths the high price. You won't be disappointed.

But if you are a fans of CH Precision, their T1 is IMHO the best audiophile 10M clock in the market currently.
:)
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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According to the manual for the clock (see attached).

I can only surmise that the design of the Vivaldi Clock, in the context of the Vivaldi stack, does not follow typical clocking. It's a self contained environment.

The Vivaldi master clock generates word clocks that are distributed through the whole system. The two separate word clocks are multiples of 44.1 or 48 kHz. It can use its internal oscilator of an external 10 MHz master oscillator. My point was simply asking why choosing the dither mode in the word clocks for these tests.
 

stevebythebay

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2012
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Hello Steve,
I guess only the Hong Kong audiophiles are so crazy!
:D

BTW I personally strongly recommend the Cybershaft new OP21A.
It worths the high price. You won't be disappointed.

But if you are a fans of CH Precision, their T1 is IMHO the best audiophile 10M clock in the market currently.
:)
The two separate word clocks are multiples of 44.1 or 48 kHz. It can use its internal oscilator of an external 10 MHz master oscillator. My point was simply asking why choosing the dither mode in the word clocks for these tests.[/QUOTE]
I've no experience with any master clock, other than the dCS which only manages the dCS Upsampler and dCS DAC.

So, I'll take your word for it that the the OP21A is the top dog. How do these alternative clocks affect the sonic quality? Do they differ in accuracy or quality of sound?
 

stevebythebay

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2012
242
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948
The Vivaldi master clock generates word clocks that are distributed through the whole system. The two separate word clocks are multiples of 44.1 or 48 kHz. It can use its internal oscilator of an external 10 MHz master oscillator. My point was simply asking why choosing the dither mode in the word clocks for these tests.
Ah! Got it. That's beyond my pay grade...
 

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