Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Steve Williams]

Hi Steve,

In extended testing at 7am this morning, we discovered a functionality bug. We had to wait a few hours for Wilson to wake up in Toronto, and he is now on the case.

With 17 years of experience under his belt, Wilson knows that he should not rush, but carefully modify and test. He has already held me back from pushing out newer versions of some libraries that the software uses, because he wisely knows that stability and having as few bugs as possible is key to a good customer experience.

The SQ of the build that you have is SOTA !

The SQ is the beauty of it all. I’ll wait to hear from you today. I want it all (drooling)

 

[EuroDriver]

The SQ is the beauty of it all. I’ll wait to hear from you today. I want it all (drooling)

In less than 2 weeks, a demo room in Odenzaal will be up and running. Then we will work on the next round of SQ upgrades. We have some concepts, but as always they have to be carefully tested code chunk by code chunk.

A reasonable ETA for the next round of SQ upgrades is about 6 to 8 weeks from now

 

[matthias]

Not planned but never say never..

Please think about it, so far I have the impression that all proprietary Taiko products are superior to the competition.

Matt

 

[seeteeyou]

TEAC is the parent company of Esoteric, AFAIK both brands should share similar ASIO driver releases for obvious reasons and they're simply modifying *.INF files / renaming files etc.

https://www.esoteric.jp/en/product/k1x/download
https://www.esoteric.jp/downloads/products/esoteric/n-01xd/esoteric_asio_usb_driver_v1029.zip

We could unzip esoteric_asio_usb_driver_v1029.zip linked above and then extract ESOTERIC_ASIO_USB_driver_V1029.exe with "Universal Extractor 2.0.0 RC4" afterwards. Go through the sub-folders and we'll find the driver ESOTERIC-Audio64.msi accordingly. Finally extract that with "Universal Extractor 2.0.0 RC4" again and we'll find these *.INF files

Esoahsd_blk.inf

%TEAC_AUDIO.Wave.DeviceDesc%=TEAC_AUDIO,USB\VID_0644&PID_805D&MI_00    ; ESOTERIC

Esoahsd_iso.inf

%TEAC_AUDIO.DeviceDesc%=TEAC_AUDIO,USB\VID_0644&PID_8044&MI_00
%TEAC_AUDIO.DeviceDesc%=TEAC_AUDIO,USB\VID_0644&PID_806C&MI_00

---

USB\VID_0644 would be more like something called ITF-USB from Japan (Interface Co., Ltd.) as shown below

https://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/dal/1011909.html
https://patchwork.kernel.org/project/alsa-devel/patch/20180323101822.6529-1-nob77413@gmail.com/

If I weren't mistaken, that didn't look very close to anything from Thesycon | XMOS | dCS with USB\VID_152A | USB\VID_20B1 | USB\VID_1E8C

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/sound/usb/quirks.c

    /* Mostly generic method to detect many DSD-capable implementations -
     * from XMOS/Thesycon
     */
    switch (USB_ID_VENDOR(chip->usb_id)) {
    case 0x152a:  /* Thesycon devices */
    case 0x20b1:  /* XMOS based devices */
    case 0x1e8c:  /* dCS devices */

---

Similarly, other brands such as Denon / Luxman / Marantz also belonged to the same "ITF-USB DSD based DACs" category and basically their ITF-USBLib would cost 150,000 yen per user

https://www.itf.co.jp/prod/audio_solution/audiodrv
https://www.itf.co.jp/prod/middleware/mw-support/lib_spp

That's less than €1,200 and IMHO the most interesting part should be this particular "Bulk Pure Enhanced Technology"

https://www.itf.co.jp/prod/audio_solution/bulk-pet/bulk-pet-en

 

[ack]

We are indeed using PCIE 3.0. The OS drive is the Optane 900p PCIE HHHL (CEM3.0).

Endurance for the Intel 900p is 10 DWPD (Drive Writes Per Day).
Endurance for the Samsung 980 Pro is 0.3 DWPD.
Endurance for the Intel 660p is 0.1 DWPD.

Nice, this is some heavy duty piece of hardware. You are obviously going all-in with the entire design - and did I mention I love the copper shielding! Regarding USB, I see a lot of emphasis on it, but is it really necessary when all DACs sport AES/EBU?

 

[Taiko Audio]

Nice, this is some heavy duty piece of hardware. You are obviously going all-in with the entire design - and did I mention I love the copper shielding! Regarding USB, I see a lot of emphasis on it, but is it really necessary when all DACs sport AES/EBU?

AES/EBU is limited to PCM 24/192 and does not support DSD. That is a deal breaker for most.

 

[Taiko Audio]

@seeteeyou Very useful information, thank you.

 

[shaned]

We're looking for volunteers to extract the necessary USB descriptor information from their DACs to add support in our USB driver. This involves a team viewer session to your Extreme, running this utility: Thesycon - USB Descriptor Dumper Tool and unplug - replug your USB cable.

We have added official support for the following interfaces:
-MSB Pro USB firmware 2.0
-DCS Vivaldi Upsampler
-DCS Vivaldi DAC
-Lampizator DACs with the Jlsounds USB interface

Already pending are:
-Totaldac
-Aqua Formula
-Ypsilon DAC 1000
-Bricasti MDxx
-Davinci Dac MKII

We will attempt to collect more DAC information while rolling out the Beta, but if your DAC is not listed here and you would not mind going to this procedure with us please drop us an e-mail at contact@taikoaudio.com or backoffice@taikoaudio.com.

We can support all XMOS based DACs, which covers the majority, that includes the new Denafrips DACs. If there's a proprietary interface we will have to investigate, but most of the time this is a cost saving measure as XMOS comes with a yearly, not unsubstantial, license fee for each individual DAC sold. We are not exempt from that and are paying those fees for each Extreme using our USB driver. The driver is therefor hardware locked to an Extreme.

Will this give you a starting off point for when the TAS software goes onto the Evo if your using a Dac from the official added support list or will you have to start from the beginning because the Evo is a different product to the Extreme ?

 

[microstrip]

AES/EBU is limited to PCM 24/192 and does not support DSD. That is a deal breaker for most.

We need double AES/EBU to have DXD - DCS uses it in their products.

 

[ack]

We need double AES/EBU to have DXD - DCS uses it in their products.

Yeah I believe I saw an option for double AES/EBU in the Taiko Extreme specs

 

[Taiko Audio]

Will this give you a starting off point for when the TAS software goes onto the Evo if your using a Dac from the official added support list or will you have to start from the beginning because the Evo is a different product to the Extreme ?

There’s no difference between the 2.

 

[Taiko Audio]

We need double AES/EBU to have DXD - DCS uses it in their products.

Indeed, for entertainment value:

The AES3 and S/PDIF formats were originally designed to accommodate sample rates up to 48kHz. The subsequent introduction of double sample rates (88.2 and 96 kHz) initially caused problems because the expanded bandwidth requirement exceeded the capabilities of most interface electronics. An early solution was simply to use two AES3 interfaces and two cables, an arrangement often referred to as 'Double Wide'. Instead of each AES3 frame carrying a stereo pair of audio samples, it is used instead to carry two consecutive samples from the same channel, thus accommodating the doubled sample rate. However, a second AES3 interface is then required to carry the second channel.

Although a pragmatic solution, it was inconvenient, and interface electronics quickly improved to operate at twice the speed of the original interface. Thus stereo audio at 88.2 or 96 kHz could be passed over a single AES3 interface, and although this was known initially as a 'Double Fast' interface, it is now the standard way of working with double sample rate material. For quad rates (176 or 192 kHz) the usual way to work at present is an extension of the 'double wide' mode using two single-channel, double-rate interfaces.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Yeah I believe I saw an option for double AES/EBU in the Taiko Extreme specs

Yes, it’s not very practical btw, as if you want to avoid having to switch your DAC between single and dual AES to play low and respectively high sampling rates you’d have to upsample everything to the highest rate your DAC supports.

 

[cat6man]

I went to Volent HK, the Extreme dealer on Hong Kong yesterday for an audition.



Their demo Extreme has just got the TAS alpha2 onboard.


View attachment 73951

Wow. What a big sonic improvement!

can any of our advance scouting team (aka beta testers) give feedback on the sound quality of extremeDirect vs. gapless playback,
both for streaming media and onboard/local media?

 

[oldmustang]

can any of our advance scouting team (aka beta testers) give feedback on the sound quality of extremeDirect vs. gapless playback,
both for streaming media and onboard/local media?

Not a beta tester (yet), but in my alpha trials I find no sq difference between eD and GL for streaming and local media.

Steve Z

 

[howiebrou]

View attachment 73965

Would that be legible viewing on a mobile phone?

 

[kswanson27]

The main thing is that the DAC should have a Windows 10 ASIO USB driver

Then the TAS Player will happily pass audio data to it

I'm signed up for the Beta and I'm currently running a pair of Dutch & Dutch 8C active speakers so the DAC is in the speaker. The speakers are connected together with AES and one is connected to a Lumin U1 Mini by AES. The Extreme is connected via ethernet to an ER which feeds the Lumin and the speakers so there is no direct USB or AES connection to the Extreme. Will I be able to get the TAS player?

 

[Sablon Audio]

Ed just logged into my Extreme and made some further tweaks to the TAS beta. Nice gains in musical engagement. Ever evolving....

One thing that is satisfying about these software tweaks is that the changes are immediately evident without any need for the burn in of hardware / cables. is easier to make valid AB comparisons.

 

[EuroDriver]

I

I'm signed up for the Beta and I'm currently running a pair of Dutch & Dutch 8C active speakers so the DAC is in the speaker. The speakers are connected together with AES and one is connected to a Lumin U1 Mini by AES. The Extreme is connected via ethernet to an ER which feeds the Lumin and the speakers so there is no direct USB or AES connection to the Extreme. Will I be able to get the TAS player?

I will contact Dutch & Dutch on Monday to discuss possible ways to connect TAS to their speakers. PM me if there is a particular person I should contact

 

[seeteeyou]

@seeteeyou Very useful information, thank you.

You're very welcomed.

---

no Chord DAVE?

It shouldn't be impossible, though we might have to ask @ray-dude to talk to Dan about the ASIO driver for his SRC•DX

https://audiowise-canada.myshopify....f/products/src-dx-usb-to-dual-spdif-interface

I extracted this driver linked below

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1552/8145/files/SRC-DX_ASIO_WHQL_20200106.exe?270

ctaud.inf

%CTUAC2.DeviceDesc%=CTUAC2,USB\VID_0EA0&PID_6002&MI_00
%CTUAC2.DeviceDesc%=CTUAC2,USB\VID_2FC6&PID_6013&MI_00
%CTUAC2.DeviceDesc%=CTUAC2,USB\VID_2FC6&PID_f018&MI_00

USB\VID_2FC6 meant that's coming from ComTrue Inc.

http://www.comtrue-inc.com/index.php/contact

CT7601 Audio USB Bridge

http://www.comtrue-inc.com/index.php/downloads2/category/4-ct7601
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/rev...phile-vortex-box.787020/page-79#post-14119139

There's a company in Taiwan selling this CT7601 Audio USB Bridge for 200 bucks and its coax input could support up to 705.6kHz / 768kHz

http://www.comtrue-inc.com/index.php/products

And then there's also this alternative from China (approximately €76 plus shipping)

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=611313177207

---

An affordable USB DDC that could handle 16fs when both coax ports are connected, some owners of Chord DAVE would be excited to replace the clock inside SRC•DX with an OCXO etc.

IIRC there's at least a handful of Extreme owners with Chord DAVE, most likely it's worth the effort to develop another ASIO driver for CT7601 IMHO.