Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Rhapsody]

Update:
A clear picture is emerging from the DAC USB implementation tests, it is strictly technical, no listener preference involved. We can now with very high accuracy predict which USB interface needs to be driven in what way, in the future we can look into autoconfiguring the driver depending on the DAC connected, but that will be a substantial coding effort, so for now we will give you profiles to load, and a recommendation of which profile to load for your DAC, if you inform us ahead of the update we can pre-load the appropriate profile for you.

Another note is that it will be impossible for me to reply to all e-mails, pms, texts and whatsapp messages in a timely fashion, just reading them all would probably take me several days. I fully understand the desire to have this update applied before monday but it's just impossible. I will post the procedure here on this forum and copy/paste the same reply to as many messages as possible when I have a few spare hours. This is not my preferred approach at all, but mandatory to make the start of the rollout possible on monday.

I love when the CONDUCTOR sends out a message to all of the passengers on the "Taiko Train"....it's thrilling!!!

 

[Ackcheng]

I would like to report back my findings with the new OS on the Revanna AOIP set up. I am a beta tester for the new OS and my DAC is Merging Hapi which uses AOIP instead of USB

Here is my feed back to Emile:

Thanks so much for your help. I have just sit back to my king seat. The first album is a piano solo. The first thing that strikes me is the 3 dimensional spacial experience. I can “see” where the piano keys are. In the past, the separation between each piece of equipment in an orchestra was clear. But this time, different key strokes can be clearly localized at its position in space. That’s a new dimension.

The background is an absolute black hole. Listening to Eva Cassidy’s “what a wonderful world” in the album “Live at Blue Alley” one can clear hear the ground noise picked up by her microphone cable at the time of recoding. I have heard this song so many times and that wasn’t apparent to me before. No, it is not ground noise in my system. It is in the recording. If one can’t hear in their system. Try headphone.

Both the macro dynamics and micro dynamics also significantly improved. My favorite is Stokowski Rhapsodies. The integrity of the whole orchestra is a lot more balanced, more 3D. The musical note was not thrown at me with all the details. Instead, I was teleported to best seat behind the conductor. The details brings out the emotions more than the details themselves.

This is my just first hour of review! Amazing.

 

[cmarin]

Am

I would like to report back my findings with the new OS on the Revanna AOIP set up. I am a beta tester for the new OS and my DAC is Merging Hapi which uses AOIP instead of USB

Here is my feed back to Emile:

Thanks so much for your help. I have just sit back to my king seat. The first album is a piano solo. The first thing that strikes me is the 3 dimensional spacial experience. I can “see” where the piano keys are. In the past, the separation between each piece of equipment in an orchestra was clear. But this time, different key strokes can be clearly localized at its position in space. That’s a new dimension.

The background is an absolute black hole. Listening to Eva Cassidy’s “what a wonderful world” in the album “Live at Blue Alley” one can clear hear the ground noise picked up by her microphone cable at the time of recoding. I have heard this song so many times and that wasn’t apparent to me before. No, it is not ground noise in my system. It is in the recording. If one can’t hear in their system. Try headphone.

Both the macro dynamics and micro dynamics also significantly improved. My favorite is Stokowski Rhapsodies. The integrity of the whole orchestra is a lot more balanced, more 3D. The musical note was not thrown at me with all the details. Instead, I was teleported to best seat behind the conductor. The details brings out the emotions more than the details themselves.

This is my just first hour of review! Amazing.

You can now “see” where the piano keys are! Oh my…wow. This just makes my anticipation even more palatable and exciting!

But if I can ask, how does the music now make you feel versus before?!

 

[Ackcheng]

The main difference is that I am more emotionally engaged. Especially for life music. The atmosphere is amazing

 

[cmarin]

Update:
A clear picture is emerging from the DAC USB implementation tests, it is strictly technical, no listener preference involved. We can now with very high accuracy predict which USB interface needs to be driven in what way, in the future we can look into autoconfiguring the driver depending on the DAC connected, but that will be a substantial coding effort, so for now we will give you profiles to load, and a recommendation of which profile to load for your DAC, if you inform us ahead of the update we can pre-load the appropriate profile for you.

Another note is that it will be impossible for me to reply to all e-mails, pms, texts and whatsapp messages in a timely fashion, just reading them all would probably take me several days. I fully understand the desire to have this update applied before monday but it's just impossible. I will post the procedure here on this forum and copy/paste the same reply to as many messages as possible when I have a few spare hours. This is not my preferred approach at all, but mandatory to make the start of the rollout possible on monday.

Emile and team, no need to answer this post.

Just want to personally extend my gratitude and appreciation, that many of our fellow Taiko members also feel, for the superlative technical ingenuity, creativity, dedication and passion to your craft. As well as to the truly unprecedented communication and customer care and support!

You could easily have left the recent update in the hands of only a few beta testers, and waited to rollout the XDMS update to the rest of your installed membership until later when it was completely ready.

But instead you chose to divert time and resources, and work out the complicated rollout logistics, to get a partial release out to everyone so that we can all enjoy the increased sonics in our system. And all of that at no upgrade cost to us!!

Truly unprecedented. Than you!!

 

[Rhapsody]

So Emile has 797 things going on, right? He had loaded USB1, 2 and 4 on my Extreme. But on Saturday afternoon his time, he texts me and says that with the Aqua LaScala (which I am using temporarily) USB3 will sound a bit better.

I told Emile we didn't load usb 3 on, just 1, 2 and 4. He jumps on my computer and in literally 1 minute loads USB 3.

USB 4 sounded great, but USB 3 for the LaScala is a noticeable even further uptick in SQ.

Now, come on, on Saturday afternoon with the 797 things on Emile's mind, he remembers that I have the LaScala and that he had me using USB4.

There has NEVER been support like this from any company in any industry. It's almost hard to believe...pinch me, I must be dreaming all of this!!!!!!!

 

[Taiko Audio]

So Emile has 797 things going on, right? He had loaded USB1, 2 and 4 on my Extreme. But on Saturday afternoon his time, he texts me and says that with the Aqua LaScala (which I am using temporarily) USB3 will sound a bit better.

I told Emile we didn't load usb 3 on, just 1, 2 and 4. He jumps on my computer and in literally 1 minute loads USB 3.

USB 4 sounded great, but USB 3 for the LaScala is a noticeable even further uptick in SQ.

Now, come on, on Saturday afternoon with the 797 things on Emile's mind, he remembers that I have the LaScala and that he had me using USB4.

There has NEVER been support like this from any company in any industry. It's almost hard to believe...pinch me, I must be dreaming all of this!!!!!!!

I though this somewhat unconventional USB profile was only for Wadax (what we made it for to solve the sound quality issues @Kawero was experiencing), but as it turns out this also applies to DCS, Mutec, Soulution and the Aqua La Scala, interestingly the Aqua Formula XHD 2.0, being more recent, needs USB4. Likely the older Aqua Formula (non xhd) will need USB3 again.

 

[EuroDriver]

So Emile has 797 things going on, right? He had loaded USB1, 2 and 4 on my Extreme. But on Saturday afternoon his time, he texts me and says that with the Aqua LaScala (which I am using temporarily) USB3 will sound a bit better.

I told Emile we didn't load usb 3 on, just 1, 2 and 4. He jumps on my computer and in literally 1 minute loads USB 3.

USB 4 sounded great, but USB 3 for the LaScala is a noticeable even further uptick in SQ.

Now, come on, on Saturday afternoon with the 797 things on Emile's mind, he remembers that I have the LaScala and that he had me using USB4.

There has NEVER been support like this from any company in any industry. It's almost hard to believe...pinch me, I must be dreaming all of this!!!!!!!

Now Extreme owners can understand that this update and USB driver selection is way above my paygrade ;-)

 

[oldmustang]

We are grown-ups … although we feel like right before unpacking those Christmas presents back when we were kids.

Will you please tell my wife that first part. . .

Thanks!

Steve Z

 

[austinpop]

Are you beta testing gentlemen using Roon now, or still on TAS?

Next week can't come soon enough!

 

[oldmustang]

Are you beta testing gentlemen using Roon now, or still on TAS?

Next week can't come soon enough!

I'm using Roon now, Rajiv. Up until this OS update I thought Roon sound quality was acceptable for background listening when I was elsewhere in the house and used TAS almost exclusively for it's better sound quality and emotional involvement over Roon. Now however Roon is noticeably better sounding than TAS, though TAS did benefit from the OS update too. The USB tweaks improved both too, but Roon is, while we're waiting for XDMS, really really enjoyable.

Steve Z

 

[austinpop]

I'm using Roon now, Rajiv. Up until this OS update I thought Roon sound quality was acceptable for background listening when I was elsewhere in the house and used TAS almost exclusively for it's better sound quality and emotional involvement over Roon. Now however Roon is noticeably better sounding than TAS, though TAS did benefit from the OS update too. The USB tweaks improved both too, but Roon is, while we're waiting for XDMS, really really enjoyable.

Steve Z

Thanks Steve!

It will be nice to use Roon again for a spell, while we wait for our next ride on the XDMS rocket.

 

[Steve williams]

Thanks Steve!

It will be nice to use Roon again for a spell, while we wait for our next ride on the XDMS rocket.

Until XDMS is released, the new OS using Roon simply destroys TAS IMO

 

[Nils]

Update from part two of my tests - the various USB Driver configurations.

As has already been pointed out earlier in thread - the biggest part of SQ improvement comes via a general OS configuration update.

Then there is a USB Driver config change that will yield an incremental improvement on top of the OS configuration change.

Based on my experience - both OS configuration change and the USB Driver config change impact all bit-depths and sample rates and also both streamed and locally stored music .

For the second part of my test, I used test tracks ranging from 16/44, 24/96, 24/192 and DSD256 - the latter was stored on Extreme the previous all streamed via Qobuz. The buffer sizes and the max # bits/sample affect timing and hence relevant to test with different bitstreams.

In my system (results will be DAC-dependent) these are the results.



SQ 1 was a clear best in my system to my ears.

SQ2 and SQ3 are much closer (SQ3 is == to the general OS Configuration mentioned at start of post).

After having spent a 'a few hours' doing these (rather simple) configuration tests I realize the incredible effort that Taiko Team must have spent exploring a gazillion number of test configurations in order to help all of us get best possible SQ. Big KUDOS!

I had some initial problems switching between the different USB Configs but after @Taiko Audio fixed the error it was easy to conduct the test - it took about 3m to switch between the USB configs and only 10s to switch the Roon setting.

I remain amazed at the SQ improvement from OS config change + USB config change - it is like a new system!

I look forward to the continued collaboration with @Taiko Audio on the journey toward SQ nirvana...

 

[dminches]

Is there no USB buffer for SQ3 or is it smaller?

 

[Nils]

Is there no USB buffer for SQ3 or is it smaller?

The buffer settings are different across the USB configurations.

USB 3 has a smaller buffer
USB4 has the initial/default setting for buffer rolled out in the general OS Config change-
USB 6 has a larger buffer

 

[dminches]

I feel like I am reading about a piece of equipment (and software) that I don't own!

 

[Kawero]

Update from part two of my tests - the various USB Driver configurations.

As has already been pointed out earlier in thread - the biggest part of SQ improvement comes via a general OS configuration update.

Then there is a USB Driver config change that will yield an incremental improvement on top of the OS configuration change.

Based on my experience - both OS configuration change and the USB Driver config change impact all bit-depths and sample rates and also both streamed and locally stored music .

For the second part of my test, I used test tracks ranging from 16/44, 24/96, 24/192 and DSD256 - the latter was stored on Extreme the previous all streamed via Qobuz. The buffer sizes and the max # bits/sample affect timing and hence relevant to test with different bitstreams.

In my system (results will be DAC-dependent) these are the results.

View attachment 89200

SQ 1 was a clear best in my system to my ears.

SQ2 and SQ3 are much closer (SQ3 is == to the general OS Configuration mentioned at start of post).

After having spent a 'a few hours' doing these (rather simple) configuration tests I realize the incredible effort that Taiko Team must have spent exploring a gazillion number of test configurations in order to help all of us get best possible SQ. Big KUDOS!

I had some initial problems switching between the different USB Configs but after @Taiko Audio fixed the error it was easy to conduct the test - it took about 3m to switch between the USB configs and only 10s to switch the Roon setting.

I remain amazed at the SQ improvement from OS config change + USB config change - it is like a new system!

I look forward to the continued collaboration with @Taiko Audio on the journey toward SQ nirvana...

Same ranking and perception from me
Br
Rainer

 

[Taiko Audio]

This is a work in progress:




-Analog Domain DAC1 - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Anthem STR - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-APL DSD-MR - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-APL DSD-SR - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Aries Cerat Helene - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Aries Cerat Kassandra - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Aqua Formula xHD V2.0 - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Aqua La Scala - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Ayre QX-5 with USB2 upgrade - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-B&O Beolab 50 - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 32-bit

-Boulder 2120

-Bricasti MDxx - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Brinkmann Nyquist - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-CH Precision - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Bartok - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Rossini - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Rossini Player - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Vivaldi - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Vivaldi Up-sampler - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Vivaldi One - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Denafrips Gaia

-Denafrips Terminator Plus

-Devialet Expert Pro

-EMM Labs DA2 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-EMM Labs DAC2V2 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-EMM Labs DAC2X - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Esoteric Grandioso D1X (PCM only)

-Esoteric K-01X (PCM only)

-Esoteric K-01XD (PCM only)

-Esoteric K-03 (PCM only)

-Exogal Comet - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Goldmund Mimesis 20H Nextgen - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Gustard X26 Pro - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Holo Audio May - USBx - Roon 24-bit

-Ideon Absolute

-iFi Pro iDSD

-Lampizator - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-LH Davinci MKII - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-LH Virtuoso - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Luxman D10X - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24 bit

-Meitner MA-3 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Meitner XDS1 V3 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-MSB Pro USB - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-MSB V / Quad - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Mutec MC-3+ - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Nagra HD-X - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Nagra Tube Dac - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Pilium Elektra - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Resolution Audio Cantata 3.0

-Sennheiser HE-1 - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Singxer SU-6 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-SoTM dx-usbHD - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Soulution 330 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Soulution 760 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-T+A MP 2500R - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-T+A SD(V)3100 - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Thrax Maximinus - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Topping NX4DSD - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Totaldac - USB1 - Roon 24-bit

-Trinity 1st gen model - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Trinity Reference

-Vinnie Rossi L2 - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Vitus - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Wadax Reference - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Weiss DAC-501

-Ypsilon 1000 - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

 

[Nils]

This is a work in progress:



-Analog Domain DAC1 - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Anthem STR - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-APL DSD-MR

-APL DSD-SR

-Aries Cerat Helene - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Aries Cerat Kassandra - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Aqua Formula xHD V2.0 - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Aqua La Scala - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Ayre QX-5 with USB2 upgrade - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-B&O Beolab 50 - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 32-bit

-Boulder 2120

-Bricasti MDxx - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Brinkmann Nyquist - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-CH Precision - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Bartok - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Rossini - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Rossini Player - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Vivaldi - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Vivaldi Up-sampler - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-DCS Vivaldi One - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Denafrips Gaia

-Denafrips Terminator Plus

-Devialet Expert Pro

-EMM Labs DA2 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-EMM Labs DAC2V2 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-EMM Labs DAC2X - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Esoteric Grandioso D1X (PCM only)

-Esoteric K-01X (PCM only)

-Esoteric K-01XD (PCM only)

-Esoteric K-03 (PCM only)

-Exogal Comet - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Goldmund Mimesis 20H Nextgen - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Gustard X26 Pro - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Holo Audio May - USBx - Roon 24-bit

-Ideon Absolute

-iFi Pro iDSD

-Lampizator - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-LH Davinci MKII - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-LH Virtuoso - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Luxman D10X - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24 bit

-Meitner MA-3 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Meitner XDS1 V3

-MSB Pro USB - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-MSB V / Quad - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Mutec MC-3+ - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Nagra HD-X - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Nagra Tube Dac - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Pilium Elektra

-Resolution Audio Cantata 3.0

-Sennheiser HE-1 - USB2 - Roon 32-bit

-Singxer SU-6 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-SoTM dx-usbHD - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Soulution 330 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Soulution 760 - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-T+A MP 2500R

-T+A SD(V)3100

-Thrax Maximinus -USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Topping NX4DSD -USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Totaldac - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Trinity 1st gen model - USB1 or USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Trinity Reference

-Vinnie Rossi L2 - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Vitus - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

-Wadax Reference - USB3 - Roon 24-bit

-Weiss DAC-501

-Ypsilon 1000 - USB4 - Roon 32-bit

Amazing!

By utilizing the WBF team (the wizdom of the crowd) together we can create huge value in short time!

These settings can likely be built into upcoming XDMS software so that end user does not have to care about techy details - only enjoy the SQ...