Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Christiaan Punter]

Hi Christiaan,
Thanks. Yes, today Roon wasn’t playing so I had to reboot the Extreme. When I press play, it saying “playing” for a second, but nothing happens, and I don’t hear the Nagra DAC’s relay clicking. Roon then seems to give up.
I’m not really worried about it, as I’ll never run Roon again once XDMS is out…

Hi Surge1, It's good to know you are not that bothered by it but such things really bug me and I can't help wanting the know the culprit. Roon should be quite stable and not be losing the connection to the DAC this frequently.

If you don't want to further pursue this just let me know. Otherwise, let's try and troubleshoot this

I assume you have probably already ruled out the obvious, that the USB cable might be faulty or off-spec? In my experience, in their quest for better sound, some high-end cables are less widely compatible. They may work just fine on one server-DAC combination but intermittently or not at all in another combination. In case of doubt, just grab any standard good quality 1-meter USB cable for a test. This won't sound as good but it should make a stable connection.

A less probable cause might be a faulty network cable (maybe the pins are not crimped on perfectly or there could be a knick in one of the wires that can cause intermittent issues. Granted, in this case, all Roon control would probably cease and you'd not see the behavior that you described. I'd wager that the same goes for the network switch and router. Still, I'd recommend swapping every component out one by one, just to be sure.

Finally, do you have another USB DAC at hand or can you borrow one, just to rule out that final stage? I'm sure the DAC itself is not the culprit but it would help the troubleshooting process if we knew that the issue is also present with another DAC, preferably one with another USB receiver chip.

Sorry, just grasping at straws here...

 

[Rhapsody]

Hi Surge1, It's good to know you are not that bothered by it but such things really bug me and I can't help wanting the know the culprit. Roon should be quite stable and not be losing the connection to the DAC this frequently.

If you don't want to further pursue this just let me know. Otherwise, let's try and troubleshoot this

I assume you have probably already ruled out the obvious, that the USB cable might be faulty or off-spec? In my experience, in their quest for better sound, some high-end cables are less widely compatible. They may work just fine on one server-DAC combination but intermittently or not at all in another combination. In case of doubt, just grab any standard good quality 1-meter USB cable for a test. This won't sound as good but it should make a stable connection.

A less probable cause might be a faulty network cable (maybe the pins are not crimped on perfectly or there could be a knick in one of the wires that can cause intermittent issues. Granted, in this case, all Roon control would probably cease and you'd not see the behavior that you described. I'd wager that the same goes for the network switch and router. Still, I'd recommend swapping every component out one by one, just to be sure.

Finally, do you have another USB DAC at hand or can you borrow one, just to rule out that final stage? I'm sure the DAC itself is not the culprit but it would help the troubleshooting process if we knew that the issue is also present with another DAC, preferably one with another USB receiver chip.

Sorry, just grasping at straws here...

Agreed Christian, something is going on with Surge1's set up. Roon is stable on the Extreme.

 

[Zeotrope]

Hi Surge1, It's good to know you are not that bothered by it but such things really bug me and I can't help wanting the know the culprit. Roon should be quite stable and not be losing the connection to the DAC this frequently.

If you don't want to further pursue this just let me know. Otherwise, let's try and troubleshoot this

I assume you have probably already ruled out the obvious, that the USB cable might be faulty or off-spec? In my experience, in their quest for better sound, some high-end cables are less widely compatible. They may work just fine on one server-DAC combination but intermittently or not at all in another combination. In case of doubt, just grab any standard good quality 1-meter USB cable for a test. This won't sound as good but it should make a stable connection.

A less probable cause might be a faulty network cable (maybe the pins are not crimped on perfectly or there could be a knick in one of the wires that can cause intermittent issues. Granted, in this case, all Roon control would probably cease and you'd not see the behavior that you described. I'd wager that the same goes for the network switch and router. Still, I'd recommend swapping every component out one by one, just to be sure.

Finally, do you have another USB DAC at hand or can you borrow one, just to rule out that final stage? I'm sure the DAC itself is not the culprit but it would help the troubleshooting process if we knew that the issue is also present with another DAC, preferably one with another USB receiver chip.

Sorry, just grasping at straws here...

Thanks Christiaan for your help!

USB: I’m using a brand new Shunyata Omega, so I doubt it’s the USB cable. I have checked to ensure it’s seated firmly at each end.

Network: I can always access the Extreme with VNC, that’s how I reboot it; so the network connection is active. It’s possible that Roon requires a constant connection and this is occasionally dropping.

Perhaps erasing and reinstalling Roon makes sense, if I were to continue using it (which I’m not).
Let’s see how XDMS behaves on my system…

How long does it take the Extreme to sound its best after a restart? Do the power supply capacitors need to recharge?

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Thanks Christiaan for your help!

USB: I’m using a brand new Shunyata Omega, so I doubt it’s the USB cable. I have checked to ensure it’s seated firmly at each end.

Network: I can always access the Extreme with VNC, that’s how I reboot it; so the network connection is active. It’s possible that Roon requires a constant connection and this is occasionally dropping.

Perhaps erasing and reinstalling Roon makes sense, if I were to continue using it (which I’m not).
Let’s see how XDMS behaves on my system…

How long does it take the Extreme to sound its best after a restart? Do the power supply capacitors need to recharge?

Hi Surge1, Quite likely, it is indeed not the USB cable but with these things, you just need to make sure. A test using a standard USB cable would be quite painless. The VNC connection would indeed suggest that the network is fine, although I don't know if the software would be more tolerant of dropouts. Roon does indeed require a constant connection. Ok, I'll stop bugging you about this now.

I do not have personal experience with the Extreme just yet (a matter of time) but from experience with lots of other servers, I'd say that for the hardware to come back on song after a brief restart will likely not take very long. Best case scenario it is only a few minutes, likely 30 mins, and worst case a couple of hours. I certainly don't think it will be days, unless you allow the unit to cool down completely and leave it switched off for several hours.

 

[John T]

Surge I would try as I first mentioned: Uninstall Roon and then reinstall...

 

[dminches]

Surge, maybe you should post some screen shots of your audio setup screen from Roon.

 

[seatrope]

@Surge1 I would DEFINITELY swap in a cheap usb cable from Amazon or whatever. I had this happen to me before and in my case it was likely the expensive USB cable at fault. Easy to try.

 

[kswanson27]

@Surge1 I would DEFINITELY swap in a cheap usb cable from Amazon or whatever. I had this happen to me before and it was likely the expensive USB cable at fault.

Same here. I had an expensive, good sounding USB cable and was having the same problems. I swapped it out for a cheap standard cable and no more problems. I've since replaced that cable with another expensive cable that sounds good and doesn't cause any problems.

 

[Zeotrope]

Thanks for all of your help and suggestions!

Let's see how it works with XDMS. I really could care less about Roon.
Shunyata's flagship ~$3K USB cable should work. If it doesn't, that would be a problem as I'm not just going to swap it for another brand. Especially since it was highly recommended by Taiko as a good match with the Extreme.

 

[John T]

You have good resolve Surge. By now I would be on the verge of taking one of my chainsaws out! I don't handle things like this very well...I also have a Shunyata Omega, waiting on the Taiko. I'll certainly let you know if the Omega has any issues...John

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...FWIW: I use the Omega USB cable with the Extreme. Excellent. Never any issues, FYI.

 

[cat6man]

according to the show's website, Taiko will be in room A 4.2, stand E 228.
it isn't clear if their kit will be in other folks' rooms, but i assume it will.

anyone going?
please bring back impressions we can vicariously enjoy

 

[Christiaan Punter]

...FWIW: I use the Omega USB cable with the Extreme. Excellent. Never any issues, FYI.

Good to know!

 

[dminches]

I used the Shunyata Omega as well with no problems.

I am going to sell it though

 

[MarkusBarkus]

@dminches and replacing it with what? The braided hair of angels?

 

[dminches]

@dminches and replacing it with what? The braided hair of angels?

Sablon EVO. It just sounded better in my system.

 

[christoph]

Sablon EVO. It just sounded better in my system.

Have you also tried the FTA Sinope?

 

[dminches]

Have you also tried the FTA Sinope?

No. If someone wants to send me one I will be happy to compare it!

 

[oldmustang]

No issues here using a Shunyata Omega USB.

In my experience network problems, particularly anything that causes higher latency or random dropping of connection regardless of how briefly, play havoc with Roon. In Roon v1.8 this got better since apparently Roon have dialed back the continuous pinging of endpoints and network connections.

However I've solved seemingly random Roon connectivity and "phantom playing" (a track or tracks seem to be playing but no sound results, or a track is incremented, pauses and then skips to the next track(s) within a second or two, sometimes incrementing through the entire queue without playing) by thorough troubleshooting of my LAN cables and components, as Christiaan suggests.

Twice I've replaced either an expensive mesh router or switch with cheaper alternatives and cured the problems I was seeing with Roon. So I infer that Roon is very touchy about network performance.

In any event, even if you plan to dump Roon for good with the advent of XDMS, it doesn't hurt to periodically check your LAN performance and take care of any problems you discover.

Good luck,

Steve Z

 

[EuroDriver]

No issues here using a Shunyata Omega USB.

In my experience network problems, particularly anything that causes higher latency or random dropping of connection regardless of how briefly, play havoc with Roon. In Roon v1.8 this got better since apparently Roon have dialed back the continuous pinging of endpoints and network connections.

However I've solved seemingly random Roon connectivity and "phantom playing" (a track or tracks seem to be playing but no sound results, or a track is incremented, pauses and then skips to the next track(s) within a second or two, sometimes incrementing through the entire queue without playing) by thorough troubleshooting of my LAN cables and components, as Christiaan suggests.

Twice I've replaced either an expensive mesh router or switch with cheaper alternatives and cured the problems I was seeing with Roon. So I infer that Roon is very touchy about network performance.

In any event, even if you plan to dump Roon for good with the advent of XDMS, it doesn't hurt to periodically check your LAN performance and take care of any problems you discover.

Good luck,

Steve Z

We recently had a customer with seemingly intractable stability problems with Roon.

On our suggestion he hooked up a unifi (ubiquity) wireless Accesspoint to his cable modem (which only had 5 GHz Wifi), and the stability problems went away.

There have been reports on the Roon Community forum for quite a while about some Users experincing problems when the Roon remote device is connecting using 5 Ghz WiFi.

Roon actually recommends 5 GHz Wifi, but it would seem not all 5GHz WiFi Accesspoints are created equal