Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[2ndLiner]

Ed @EuroDriver installed the latest patch early this morning and as a result my today’s to do list has barely been addressed. I’ve just mostly been listening in amazement, even shed a tear to Deadmau5!?! And Electronica is not really my “thing.” This latest patch has delivered a startling jump in SQ; more realistic, soulful, tonally rich, detailed, 3D, dynamic presentation than I have previously experienced. The fullness and detail in the bass is just magnificent! When I hear Emile @Taiko Audio reference more SQ improvement tricks up his sleeve along with the post-Christmas “toys” Taiko will be releasing I am dumbfounded at the thought of what is in store! Soooooooooo grateful to be a part of this!

 

[oldmustang]

Ed @EuroDriver installed the latest patch early this morning and as result my today’s to do list has barely been addressed. I’ve just mostly been listening in amazement, even shed a tear to Deadmau5!?! And Electronica is not really my “thing.”

Raise Your Weapon?

Steve Z

 

[cmarin]

Ed @EuroDriver installed the latest patch early this morning and as a result my today’s to do list has barely been addressed. I’ve just mostly been listening in amazement, even shed a tear to Deadmau5!?! And Electronica is not really my “thing.” This latest patch has delivered a startling jump in SQ; more realistic, soulful, tonally rich, detailed, 3D, dynamic presentation than I have previously experienced. The fullness and detail in the bass is just magnificent! When I hear Emile @Taiko Audio reference more SQ improvement tricks up his sleeve along with the post-Christmas “toys” Taiko will be releasing I am dumbfounded at the thought of what is in store! Soooooooooo grateful to be a part of this!

Couldn’t agree more!

I just installed the latest backend patch without having to bother Ed to carry out the task. Thanks to everyone on the Discord #backend thread for laying out the steps so that even even someone with my limited tech skills could install the patch without a glitch.

As others have commented, the effect of the latest patch is literally jaw dropping…even small sounds are now palpably real…you can feel/hear them with your body…engagement is through the roof. You just can’t listen casually anymore!

A continually incredible job by the Taiko team!

For those of you who have not tried XDMS - Jump in…the water is just fine!

 

[Blackmorec]

So our recommendation (if you want the lowest possible noise) is:

-RJ45 from router to switch as it still uses less power then dual fiber SFP modules (for which you need a SFP RJ45 module (which we intend to supply with the package)
-SFP DAC twinax copper cable from switch to Extreme (which we intend to supply with the package)

Hi Emile,
Firstly let me say that your above 3 ’network’ posts were beautifully written. Crystal clear.
While I am not an Extreme user, I enjoy hanging around here because in amongst the sand of installations, patches and upgrades lie some real gems of information and the above is an absolute diamond.
The reason I don‘t have an Extreme is that I’m enjoying ploughing my own furrow. I have spent the past 4 years treating the entire modem to DAC as a holistic system . Holistic meaning that I look at the ‘system’ power supplies, cabling, vibration control, clocking, DC cabling, network traffic management, noise management etc. as all being part of a single active system, where handoffs from one component to the next are critical to getting the best SQ. I see the network as the means to purify and refine the incoming broadband.
What I’m finding is that the network is a rich seam (mine) for sound quality. Rather than a law of diminishing returns, the better my system gets, the better each subsequent upgrade sounds. I‘m also finding that if the hierarchy of the network is such that when each subsequent ‘step’ in the sequence has an improved specification for things like clocking, power supplies, vibration control, transport cables etc. you get a compounding effect where a small change at the router cascades through the network on a better in = better out basis to give you a larger improvement at the final listening. As I’ve made more and more upgrades, the SQ improvements have changed in nature. Initially the changes could easily be described in hi-fi terms like ‘blackness’, imaging, sound stage, clarity, speed, timing, tonal accuracy etc. but the more recent changes are far more difficult to label as they relate to listener involvement, emotional response, strength of feeling, revelation of subtle rhythmical interplays, communications of the music’s internal messages, joy and beauty, intensity, listener response (tears of joy, exhaling the intense feelings, spontaneous applause etc.) If I could summarise the most recent upgrades, they hit my pleasure centres more intensely and feel like moving performances in a venue rather than listening to recorded music.
As I mentioned earlier, I’ve found no law of diminishing returns. Although upgrades are gradually becoming more expensive the uplift in SQ they deliver is still commensurate
with their cost.

 

[DW101]

Couldn’t agree more!

I just installed the latest backend patch without having to bother Ed to carry out the task. Thanks to everyone on the Discord #backend thread for laying out the steps so that even even someone with my limited tech skills could install the patch without a glitch.

As others have commented, the effect of the latest patch is literally jaw dropping…even small sounds are now palpably real…you can feel/hear them with your body…engagement is through the roof. You just can’t listen casually anymore!

A continually incredible job by the Taiko team!

For those of you who have not tried XDMS - Jump in…the water is just fine!

Managed to install the latest XDMS backend myself and have been listening for a couple of hours or so. The new version really does feel to me like quite a 'breakthrough' moment in terms of (at least my) psychoacoutic appreciation of / engagement with performances. Not that the previous version wasn't very good, but this just seems to have crossed some threshold of detail retrieval that makes it so easy to hear the 'groove' going on and appreciate how good the musicians are. Which in turn makes me further appreciate how good Team Taiko is. What a trajectory! Can't wait for the 'sunny uplands' of next year's releases. Thank you

 

[Nils]

The backend updates are available for download on the Discord XDMS Testers Group under Executable, backend

If you are more comfortable with having us do the patch, send an email to support@taikoaudio.com with the TeamViewer ID and pw of your Laptop/ Desktop or your Extreme

It is the backend updates that affect SQ while control-app updates provide new functional features.

The XDMS' Server- and Player gets updated via backend updates.

There are two backend-updates (available at Discord or by contacting support)
- v221110 - EPIC SQ due to non-disclosed changes
- v221202 - nice SQ due to non-disclosed changes

Normally, changes are cumulative, meaning that you should always use the latest release as that includes all previous SQ-improvements

if you like to savor things, you can start with v221110, enjoy that for a while and then move up to the latest and greatest (atm v221202)

 

[Zeotrope]

Managed to install the latest XDMS backend myself and have been listening for a couple of hours or so. The new version really does feel to me like quite a 'breakthrough' moment in terms of (at least my) psychoacoutic appreciation of / engagement with performances. Not that the previous version wasn't very good, but this just seems to have crossed some threshold of detail retrieval that makes it so easy to hear the 'groove' going on and appreciate how good the musicians are. Which in turn makes me further appreciate how good Team Taiko is. What a trajectory! Can't wait for the 'sunny uplands' of next year's releases. Thank you

Did you upgrade from the Nov.18 or older backend? I heard a major improvement when Ed installed what was then the latest on Nov.18.
I just installed the Dec. 2 update on my own - very easy. Low end detail seems to be improved; not as big of an improvement as the Nov. 18 update, which was jaw-dropping (prior to that I was on the Oct. 6 XDMS backend).
Of course, I’m not complaining - this is the best journey I have been on in more than three decades as an audio enthusiast.

 

[DW101]

Did you upgrade from the Nov.18 or older backend? I heard a major improvement when Ed installed what was then the latest on Nov.18.
I just installed the Dec. 2 update on my own - very easy. Low end detail seems to be improved; not as big of an improvement as the Nov. 18 update, which was jaw-dropping (prior to that I was on the Oct. 6 XDMS backend).
Of course, I’m not complaining - this is the best journey I have been on in more than three decades as an audio enthusiast.

Ed first installed XDMS for me on 25th Nov, so I guess if there was an update on 18th November I would have had that as the then current version? Prior to that I was on TAS. It was good before, but something seems to have tipped for me / my system with the latest. The bass is also ridiculously good

 

[Steve williams]

Ed first installed XDMS for me on 25th Nov, so I guess if there was an update on 18th November I would have had that as the then current version? Prior to that I was on TAS. It was good before, but something seems to have tipped for me / my system with the latest. The bass is also ridiculously good

With the new updates from a few days ago everything is ridiculously good ..Not only is the SQ beyond the beyondo but in the past 2-3 builds the platform is beginning to take on a beautiful appearance as all the bugs are being squashed

 

[EuroDriver]

Did you upgrade from the Nov.18 or older backend? I heard a major improvement when Ed installed what was then the latest on Nov.18.
I just installed the Dec. 2 update on my own - very easy. Low end detail seems to be improved; not as big of an improvement as the Nov. 18 update, which was jaw-dropping (prior to that I was on the Oct. 6 XDMS backend).
Of course, I’m not complaining - this is the best journey I have been on in more than three decades as an audio enthusiast.

On Nov 18 you were one of the first external users of the current patch

 

[Zeotrope]

On Nov 18 you were one of the first external users of the current patch

Aha! Makes sense, thank you.

Somewhat off topic but it’s interesting to learn how electrical energy is conducted in a wire. I only recently learned that even DC electrons do not “flow” down a wire. This is essentially why cables make a difference, and “digital is not digital” in any system, as we know:
EDIT: Link provided

 

[2ndLiner]

Aha! Makes sense, thank you.

Somewhat off topic but it’s interesting to learn how electrical energy is conducted in a wire. I only recently learned that even DC electrons do not “flow” down a wire. This is essentially why cables make a difference, and “digital is not digital” in any system, as we know:

Is there a link to an article you read? Thanks!

 

[Zeotrope]

Is there a link to an article you read? Thanks!

Sorry, yes:

 

[oldmustang]

It is the backend updates that affect SQ while control-app updates provide new functional features.

The XDMS' Server- and Player gets updated via backend updates.

There are two backend-updates (available at Discord or by contacting support)
- v221110 - EPIC SQ due to non-disclosed changes
- v221202 - nice SQ due to non-disclosed changes

Normally, changes are cumulative, meaning that you should always use the latest release as that includes all previous SQ-improvements

if you like to savor things, you can start with v221110, enjoy that for a while and then move up to the latest and greatest (atm v221202)

I agree with what you've written although personally I would characterize v221110 as nice and v221202 as EPIC. The latter step change struck me as being a very large increase in vividness, tonal saturation, energy in the room, and most importantly, emotional involvement very much akin to what I heard from the far more expensive APEX upgrade to my DAC.

Steve Z

 

[nonesup]

I totally agree. The previous patch improved what we might call audiophile parameters, but this latest one involves you emotionally in the music like no time since I bought the Extreme.

 

[ctydwn]

omg

stepping back a moment, been listening to my fully broken-in new amps the past 5 days running XDMS alpha v1. (I had been away 6 weeks but XDMS managed to play them the entire time, non-stop.) Wanted to recalibrate my ears before moving to the latest version of XDMS. Everything was sounding great.

Given all the feedback here, I couldn't wait any longer and sent a message late yesterday evening to Taiko Support trying to set up an appointment for today. Literally 10 minutes later, Ed is on my computer uploading the latest back-end. I mean... I felt badly, on Sat night or Sun morning no less. After watching a program with my wife, I saw the msg from Ed that all was good to go. That in itself is incredible. Thank you again so much Ed.

Now, just spent the last 90 minutes listening to my go to tracks. The accolades have already rained down in many of the articulate posts above. I am speechless. Honestly. Each track I started I had to listen to the end, which even yesterday wasn't the case. Getting said alot, but the realism and engagement factors are outrageously intoxicating. I initially was listening to the hi res versions over Qobuz that wasn't possible with Alphav1, but when I switched over to my Library tracks, they were equally improved. Not subtle. My analytical audio mind was disengaged. It’s as if a threshold has been crossed.

I would venture cautiously to even say the improvement in XDMS was comparable to my amp upgrade. Impossible to quantify and I surmise one would not sound as good without the other, but, omg, there is a bit of a cost difference there. I think the amps/other components help bring better orchestra members together but taiko/xdms as the conductor is harnessing the most from them as an ensemble. lol not sure if that is the best analogy.

As other folks have said, we are so privileged to be on this train. Thanks again to all at Taiko and this community.
Back to the music.

 

[cat6man]

As I write this. I'm in the room next to my stereo, listening to Keith Jarrett at Carnegie Hall and I can neither get up from my chair nor stop bopping my head around and tapping my feet. This is why music matters.

 

[VPN]

Why did we end up designing both a switch and a router?

I'm attempting to write this in as non technical language as I can but please let me know if it still reads like total gibberish (as in understandable, not gibberish as in you don't believe any of this has anything to do with sound quality).

First off all, after years of trying and experimenting we have not found a single solution leading to full immunization to the influence of networking on sound quality. This network is an active components in your home. A perhaps shocking discovery is that your home network can even influence your analogue playback chain. Every component of your network exerts a degree of influence, ranging from very minor to mayor. What this simply means is that when you introduce any type of streaming digital source into your system (and even when you don't) and you care about sound quality, you should absolutely look at the whole picture, including every single component and piece of wire, not identical to but similar as to how you look at for example your power utility setup, where the utility breaker box, fuses and all bits of wire make a difference.

A router is like the airport / main distribution center of your network, it performs customs clearance on international packages, checks for illegal content, sorts and transports all packages to where they should arrive in a timely and organised fashion. It should have plenty of capacity to ensure everything runs smooth and in a timely fashion, good management and quality control departments.

A switch is like your local post office / distribution center, it needs a well maintained road system and a fleet of delivery trucks with good suspension so packages arrive undamaged at their final destination even when encountering a few bumps in the road and last but not least well mannered delivery guys.

In audiophile language, using the earlier mentioned power utility setup analogy your house mains utility distribution box would be the router, your in-wall wiring would be the ethernet cable running from the router, your local system power strip or power conditioner would be the switch and your power cord would be your ethernet cable. Perhaps unsurprisingly their respective degrees of influence on sound quality are very similar. The router being the mains utility distribution box in this example can furthermore be enhanced with things like power regeneration, cleaning, stabilization etc.

From this point on it's going to get unavoidably more technical as I'm now going to share a photo of a 3D print of the switch PCB which will reveal that the switch employs 2 SFP ports exclusively. Small form-factor pluggable, or SFP, devices enable the switch to connect to fiber and Ethernet cables of different types and speeds by using SFP modules which are available in both copper, RJ45 and fiber versions.

View attachment 101140

For clarity / comparative reasons a repost of the router PCB photo:

View attachment 101141

And a photo of a fiber and a copper SFP module:

View attachment 101142

Dear Emile,

Thank your for your well written update! In my case I have the service provider fiber going into the Fiber modem, then a RJ45 cable to the router/switch. Does the new router accept the service provider fiber directly? Or will I still need a fiber modem before the Taiko router?
Cheers,

VPN

 

[RUIN*ish]

Edward thank you my friend..
This is not a "patch."
Omg...
Marc

 

[Taiko Audio]

Dear Emile,

Thank your for your well written update! In my case I have the service provider fiber going into the Fiber modem, then a RJ45 cable to the router/switch. Does the new router accept the service provider fiber directly? Or will I still need a fiber modem before the Taiko router?
Cheers,

VPN

It could accept the service provider fiber directly. Subsequently you could create a separated audio and rest-of-home network.

Obviously it could also be placed behind the fiber modem.