We are talking here about an option INCL the Extreme itself, right?! The last time I remember Emile hinted that the BPS might cost the same as the current Extreme price, like 25kish.
Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème
- Thread starter CKKeung
- Start date
My guess of $60k does not include the Extreme. Of course, I could be wrong but that’s I think it could be.
I have no idea, but I very much doubt whether a BPS from Taiko will be in the $60 K range.
I have never heard that number floated other than that it just came up here.
$60k includes the BPS, router, switch and Ethernet card based on Steve’s full Monty comment. That puts the BPS in the $45k range.
Yeah, I only have a *very* nicely equipped Porsche Cayenne parked in my living room right now. . .It’s only the cost of a BMW or Mercedes SUV
Steve Z
If the BPS came with a temporary set of wheels maybe it could qualify for a tax credit . But then there would be title and registration.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
You guys crack me up. What you forget is how prices have risen due to lack of goods. I’m betting it cost Emile a king’s ransom to buy enough copper to make hundreds upon hundreds of these switches. The BPS was to be ready last August but supply chain issues made it impossible to secure adequate quantities. So here we are now In a global shutdown and people are complaining that the cost is as high as a BMW. Well the most expensive BMW now is hugely eclipsed by the cost of another TOTL DAC/Server. Yes this is real money but the comparisons to me just don’t cut it in present world situations My bet as well is that the cost will continue to rise and not because of any Taiko schemes but rather because the price of everything is rising. It’s all relative. For me I just wouldn’t pay over $5K for a LPS but I find it difficult to shun all the new Taiko goodies. What people who are still on Roon or TAS can do is get XDMS. That’s free and I’ll bet that if you never heard the switch, card, router BPS etc you would be eternally satisfied. I’ve just learned that when Emile promises he always delivers and presently this is all about the best SQ.
@Taiko Audio, here are some likely noobish question(s) about the router and switch.
I am using a wifi router right now, equipped with a mobile SIM card, as I do not have a landline connection in my house.
Will this still allow me to use both the router and the switch?
As for the power supply, I have 2x Uptone Audio Ultracap LPS-1.2 available, would these be of any use for powering the router and / or the switch?
I am using a wifi router right now, equipped with a mobile SIM card, as I do not have a landline connection in my house.
Will this still allow me to use both the router and the switch?
As for the power supply, I have 2x Uptone Audio Ultracap LPS-1.2 available, would these be of any use for powering the router and / or the switch?
It will not be $60K+ for just the BPS.
Although it's build cost is higher then that of an Extreme, and the accumulated R&D costs are very significant, it will not require intensive support, in fact it will lower support load due to not having to support problems caused by fuse swapping and answering questions related to the AC power utility. Hence the earlier estimate on "page unknown" in this thread that an Extreme + BPS would retail at about double the Extreme's retail.
Do note that the build cost highly depends on the chassis and battery cell quality. The battery cells we have selected do not require a change after 5-7 years, in fact they are guaranteed to function at 95% of new after 30 years or 100.000 charge cycles (which would be 273 years at once a day charging). They also sound significantly better then any other cell we tried. You cannot buy these as a private individual btw, the MOQ is 2000pcs and you need to submit your plan of usage, including very stringent safety measures etc, to the manufacturer for approval. We actually had to resort to enlisting an engineer specialised in EVs drive systems to get this done, and it took him over a year...
Then we had to design the BMS to be able to match the battery cell life expectancy, that means for example no electrolytic capacitors in the final model, that is in fact quite a challenge on it's own and raises not only costs but also design effort significantly,
And last but not least a Bluetooth controller / interface with an IOS APP to manage the BPS, the obvious hard part of this being it needing to be extremely low noise / inaudible while being mounted inside the chassis!
So was this all worth it?
We've been getting questions if we could build a bigger and better Extreme almost from day 1 of launch, now over 4 years ago. And we have build bigger and better Extremes, lots of them. 2,3,4,5 box versions, weights ranging from ~180 to a whopping ~900 lbs. And they all do sound better. The bigger the more significantly so, retail price tags ranging from ~50K to ~150K and we could even go beyond that. And it's every much as sensitive to fuses, power cords, powergrid "quality" etc as it is now, in fact increased sensitivity... To be blunt, in my mind this is not a very clever approach, there is zero innovation in this, a rather wasteful use of this worlds natural resources if I may say so.
So again, was it all worth it, well IMHO a big yes, as this BPS option not only significantly outperforms even our biggest most badass linear powered build, it is also more durable and uses less resources, both in build as in after sales support, and you as a customer are paying roughly the same, or maybe a few % more then you would for a 2 box linear powered extreme.
Hey Steve, we were just having some fun. I have/sell speakers cables that cost as much as a SUV, everything is relative.
I already have several orders from Extreme customers REGARDLESS of the price for the Switch, net-card, router and BPS. Just waiting to be able to place the orders.
Indeed, basically we are not very keen on investing precious R&D into developing a small LPS to fill a 6 month gap. Most of our customers already own an audiophile LPS, if you don't the Switch even provides a very large uptick when powered by a standard wall-wart SMPS, I just cannot in good conscious recommend investing heavily in an audiophile LPS as however good it is it will always, IMHO, be inferior to our upcoming BPS.
I should add that I personally probably would spend say a sub 1K amount to have better sound for those 6 months, and/or resell it after which is pretty easy due to the very high demand on these, although in my case it would probably end up on a closet shelf somewhere only to be found again when moving house or similar.
In fact it affects both almost to an equal degree. Sorry to be the bearer of "bad news".
I think bearer of "Good News"
Fun fact: we actually did receive a government innovation grand for the BPS for applications outside of High-end audio as it has some unique features like for example a direct very high efficiency ATX power supply for servers which can power a whole server rack in a data center, and last for 30 years, bypassing the need for a UPS solution...
I forget where I read, but it suggested your innovation can be used for a variety of applications. Appliances etc...etc...
Emile, I know I sound like a broken record (no pun intended!) but learning more about the innovation in the BPS, you and your team deserve huge credit and respect! You make a great case for why it was developed.
Having experience developing and launching products that integrate hardware and software globally, I am willing to bet that the margins are very reasonable. It costs a lot more than what many people think to build products like this, especially in low volumes.
Emile, I’m sure you’ve thought of this already, but why not go with Ethernet to the BPS, rather than Bluetooth. The integration of connecting data via BLE and Ethernet can be a bit tricky.
Having experience developing and launching products that integrate hardware and software globally, I am willing to bet that the margins are very reasonable. It costs a lot more than what many people think to build products like this, especially in low volumes.
Emile, I’m sure you’ve thought of this already, but why not go with Ethernet to the BPS, rather than Bluetooth. The integration of connecting data via BLE and Ethernet can be a bit tricky.
That was my estimate for BPS + switch + Ethernet card + router.
Frankly, given all the R&D and what you end up with, it seems very reasonable.
Well, I’m afraid I‘m too poor for the big battery power supply.
So I thought about futzing around with a fuse.
austinpop and romaz had done that and reported sonic benefits.
Otoh, Emile recently wrote: “… having to support problems caused by fuse swapping … “.
Yes, I have read as well his thoughts about those fuses possibly loosing their performance with switching on and off.
Still, I think about those fuses.
Which fuses made trouble? Did they bring damage to the Taiko extreme?
While I enjoyed all my conversations with Ed (hi Ed!), I don’t want to steal his time with rebooting/reinstalling/whatever due to fuse failures.
Which not?
Which were a good match, which weren’t?
thx in advance for your input!
So I thought about futzing around with a fuse.
austinpop and romaz had done that and reported sonic benefits.
Otoh, Emile recently wrote: “… having to support problems caused by fuse swapping … “.
Yes, I have read as well his thoughts about those fuses possibly loosing their performance with switching on and off.
Still, I think about those fuses.
Which fuses made trouble? Did they bring damage to the Taiko extreme?
While I enjoyed all my conversations with Ed (hi Ed!), I don’t want to steal his time with rebooting/reinstalling/whatever due to fuse failures.
Which not?
Which were a good match, which weren’t?
thx in advance for your input!
Reasonable is not the word I would use with any of our obsessive audio endeavors...I have 10K worth of tubes to prove it! And its not that many tubes! LOL! Face it, we are as dedicated as to what we "do" more than any other "hobby"/obsession that I know of...
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